egroen

What a strange list...is it literally, "Hey, I remember that guy - he gets in!" or is there a method here? For instance, why on earth is Mogilny a definite "yes" while Turgeon a definite "no". Both guys who will probably never get in, but I would have Turgeon well ahead of Mogilny. Blake and Bure will probably never sniff it either. Recchi has a better chance than those 4.

Modano is barely a top ten forward of his generation - he is consistently good, sort of like a Sundin. He cracked 2nd team all star once, and just barely cracked top 10 in scoring a few times. Howe was a 3 Time Norris runner up against Langway, Bourque and Coffey, and was high in the voting several other times, also garnering multiple top 5 Hart placings. They are not really even close.

Fixed.

Eva, if you are trying to say Samuelsson has an accurate shot, just stop... we all have eyes; He does not and no stats are going to dissuade that. Samy is an unbelievable value and he brings a lot to that table that Babcock preaches: Shoot the puck Backcheck and forecheck relentlessly Go to the net The third one he could still get better at (and he did in the playoffs), but he is a perfect soldier for Babcock. Unless he starts demanding Filppula money I do hope he is with the team for some time to come. Samy makes things happen, he gets under opponents skin... he's a bit like a skating Holmstrom just causing general chaos and confusion. He drives me crazy sometimes, but I actually like him a lot.

I've never see nanyone handle the puck tightly like Datsyuk... it is utterly amazing what he does against the boards, in the corners and behind the net with 2,3 even 4 guys right there. "Stick handling in a phone booth" is very apropo when talking about Datsyuk. He just comes away with the puck in those tight situations so often.

Fedorov should be ahead of Shanahan. Other than that, great list!

As stated above - this needs to be Kocur. He is still around and he turned Fischer into quite the scrapper (one punch knockout of Hartnell remind you of anyone?). Quincey likes to fight and Ericsson will, but he needs to add a few pounds to his frame to really be intimidating.

LA is over $12 million below the cap minimum. I think it is a given they will throw some money at a goalie... my guess being Khabibulin (as the Hawks are currently over the cap). Chicago fans are so full of themselves right now -- half of them view last season as a rousing success simply because of how they fared against the Wings. I really hope the Wings take it to them this year, in-season and in the playoffs (if Chicago even makes it). I think Dallas is clearly the #2 team in the West. Richards for a full year plus Avery - they are going to be a tough team to face. San Jose... well, they just do not scare me.

A positive way to view Chelios signing -- it will force someone to be traded, whether it is Meech, Quincey, Lebda or Lilja -- they would have had to be traded anyways with guys like Ericsson, Kindl, Smith and Pyett coming up in the next year and on. The latter group has a lot more potential than anyone in the former group. If someone is going to be traded, I like sooner better than later. All-in-all this is not a big deal. Ericsson is not going to be hampered by Chelios -- either he makes his way into the starting lineup or he plays in GR. With Chelios as the #7/8 -- Meech, Lebda, Lilja and Quincey will battle it out for the two slots in the final defensive pairing. The least impressive of all of them will be traded. How is this a bad thing... especially if we get a decent draft pick out of it? Two of them will get starting minutes and one of them will be in the reserves with Chelios. In no way do I see Chelios as this big anchor holding up development and playing time -- Him being on the team or not has almost zero correlation between these guys' playing time. Some of you are acting like Chelios is just going to be handed the #5, when I think it is pretty clear that is not the case.

And Holmstrom wasn't sure if he was kidding or serious...

When talking about Minnesota, it always confounds me no one ever mentions they actually LOST a hockey team. Pittsburgh almost lost theirs. Detroit is an Orginal 6 - Has more Cups than any US team - Good enough for me, despite it being a pale comparison to the popularity of football and baseball.

Ericsson does not factor into this conversation. He is not getting traded. If he plays outstanding at camp and fits solidly in the #5 or 6 he will be playing for Detroit (Chelios in no way will hinder that). If not, he will get the playing time he needs in GR. Same goes for Kindl. They are not going to be sitting around at the #7 or 8. If Meech or Lebda really pan out they might reach Dandeneault status. Quincey could one day be a smaller Lilja - that is their potential. And that is all a big "if"... which does not quite overwhelm me. I'll take chelios as is any day over that "potential". Asides from leadership and vocal qualities Chelios possesses, it is the training that I think is invaluable to the team. How often is it quoted from coaches and players the kind of shape Chelios is in, and the workouts he does. Imagine being a younger player and seeing a 47 year-old veteran, with nothing left to prove, kicking your ass in workouts? Motivating you think?

There you go. So either Holland is a complete idiot and doesn't want to lose out on free ribs at Cheli's or management actually sees a large benefit in keeping Chelios around. The young defenseman we have in the logjam right now are not even remotely close key parts to this team -- You will not convice me Lilja, Lebda, Meech and Quincey provide substancially more right now, or have so much more potential than what Chelios curently provides. Let's face it, those guys are bottom pairing defencemen who are a dime a dozen in the NHL. This discussion is not even relevent to them. Now when we start legitimately talking about Ericsson, Kindl, Smith and Pyett... you guys have a point if Chelios is still around. But I am not going to send myself into a tizzy if we end up losing the service of Derek Meech so we can retain Chelios.

People are already starting to get on Maltby's case -- he was playing great hockey at the end of the season before he was injured. Sort of a non-factor in the games he did come back for in the playoffs, as well as a lot of lackluster games during the season. It'll be interesting when his contract runs out after 2010... guys like Abdelkader, Helm and a few others will be chomping at the bit and we will be at a similar logjam on forwards as we now are on defencemen.

Chelios has said he would play for the Motor City Mechanics if he could not play for the Wings. All that has changed is he had a lackluster series against Dallas. I am more than willing to attribute that to his injury before I throw him off the bus. I need to see a lot more of him "slipping" to not want someone of his caliber at league minimum. (He is talking to the refs all game long, and you can tell their reaction to him is different than other players yapping their mouths -- they'll nod their heads up and down when he is talking, don't immediately turn away, etc.... just something I have noticed.) None of Lilja, Meech, Lebda or Quincey have enough talent or potential to consider Chelios as hindering it.

Yup. Winning can certainly become addicting. We already have a good idea of what his market value on a Cup Contender is = Approximately $7 million a year long term. That was a good deal offered by the Penguins... but it is probably even better coming from the Wings. If he likes being a Red Wing (it certainly sounds like he has been trying to become one for some time), is willing to buy into the system (ie. take a discount) and the cap continues to go up -- he very well might end up sticking around.

Maybe he likes the game? Likes competing and being a part of a team, especially a perennial championship contender? Yzerman certainly did not go out on top, and if it were not for his injuries, I wouldn't be shocked if he was still playing.

You guys are nuts for trying to run him out of town. He had two bad line changes coming off an injury against Dallas in the playoffs. That's it... that's how much he has "slid". He can still kill penalties better than most of our defenders, he's a dirty SoB that still gets under opponents' skins, he is incredible positionally and he has a great outlet pass. By the way, the refs listen to him, too. I could see Chelios playing for the Griffins for a few years before I see him as part of the staff.

For the same reason Holland signed him to $3 million, plenty of other teams would see the value of a solid, fast two-way player who can contribute offensively on the 2nd line. The Wings just happen to have a surplus of that type of player, but the rest of the league does not. Filppula would fetch a nice return, even if he did not significantly increase his scoring.

Regarding Holmstrom: It is not $2.25 million that comes off the books by trading him, it is much closer to $1.4 million. You still have to replace that body with someone, and most of our players ready to come up are making well over league minimum - closer to $800-900k. For $1.4 million in cap space, it is absolutely not worth it to trade someone with such a unique skill set, but also someone who is pretty inarguably the best in the league at it. Cleary and Franzen are nowhere close. And let's face it, I would absolutely dread having Holmstrom going against us! The person it would make the most sense to trade is Filppula, especially if he does not justify a cap space of $3 million a year in the next year. Unless Filppula becomes a 50-60 pt player, his solid two-way play has more value to other teams than it does the Red Wings who already have a ton, in roster players and prospects. At this point, I would rather have Holmstrom at $2.25 million than Filppula at $3 million - easily.

Rafalski has a no-trade-clause anyways. If it comes down to either Hossa or Filppula, well that is a very easy decision. But if it comes down to Hossa or Filppula + Franzen, that is much more difficult... and it is too early to answer that.

I agree it was going to be tight, but there was at least a chance before. I really would have prefered him on a 2 year contract at around $2 million... just for the flexibility. If he pans out, he gets his raise in two years, if not... no loss. Arbitration would not have given him any more than that and I am sure his agent knew it. The kind of guy who is "getting paid for things that don't show up on the stat sheet" do not make $3 million a year. Especially when the Wings already have a ton of that. He needs to produce, IMO, to justify that kind of salary on a team where 80% of the players are making less than their worth. Hudler, IMO, could produce enough to justify that number... not sure if Filppula can. And I could very well be wrong here.

$3 million? That very well could be the difference between keeping Franzen *and* Hossa. If he is not putting up at least 50 pts I will be disappointed.

For the cap, they take the average of all years = $3 million cap hit this year (and all years).

I remember reading that article (it was an interview by Mlive with Quincey, I believe). I really hope Quincey makes the team over one of Meech/Lebda.