egroen

Thanks for listing it all... $1.8m assumes the Wings carry the maximum 23 man roster... Have they done that since the lockout? If they go with a 22 man roster, now you're looking at $2.5m in cap space! I'm loving this situation right now.

Howe was actually very ackward and shy off the ice in the 50s, sounding like a country bumpkin. He almost always deferred to Ted Lindsay during interviews. His personality did not really emerge until the 60s. Sort of like Datsyuk letting Zetterberg do all his talking until only recently.

I'm hoping the Wings either trade up or down. Thought last year was brilliant essentially getting 2 1st rounders for the price of one.

If Howe played in the 80s he would be a stronger, meaner and more defensively sound Messier - scoring 160+ points regularly to boot. I have Howe behind only Gretzky, and it's not by a large margin.

Roster player + prospect + 2 1st round picks

Datsyuk is awfully close to being a lock for the Hall of Fame now. 3 Selke trophies is outstanding, tied with Carbonneau and Lehtinen and only behind Gainey. The book Ultimate Hockey lists retroactive Selke winners: 6 Nighbor 5 Pavelich 4 Metz 4 Klukay 4 Provost 3 Berlinquette 3 Lepine 3 Finnigan 3 Keon 3 Clarke And Gainey wins one more for a total of 5.

Sakic also signed an offer sheet for the Rangers while he was still captain of the Avs.

I'm getting sold. It would be nice to grab someone like this in later rounds, but they always go early. A defensively sound big guy that is mean and nasty is just what is desperately lacking from this team. There are plenty of defensemen on the roster and in the system that can put up points, but very few with a legitimate snarl. I keep hoping Kolosov can be that guy.

I lost a lot of respect for him after he took the majority of a season off... to just rest. That had to really rub that locker room in the wrong way. His hemming and hawing forced some regretable moves on the chance he would be coming back and I bet the Ducks are really wishing right now they had held Pronger over Niedermayer. His elbow on Datsyuk was something you would expect from a player like Matt Cooke - I don't think that is bebing overplayed at all; that's the type of cheapshot a lot of horrendous injuries have resulted from... and on the perrenial Lady Byng winner!

That was my first reaction as well... Just unusual to see only one male induction this year (I think the only other time was Wayne Gretzky), as there certainly are plenty of other men deserving and elgible. The committee is such an old boy's club, I think all their moves 'say something'.

Women are separate... each year up to 4 men, 2 women and 2 builders can be accepted. No one else got the 14 out of 18 votes this year. I am hearing Mark Howe came close this year Hopefully he will finally be 'forgiven' for daring to play in the WHA. I think it is obvious the committee strongly believes in making players with black marks wait, and that first-year inductions are reserved for the true greats. I do like that.

When I set aside my bias it's incredibly close and I flip-flop a lot. I currently believe Yzerman was better - largely based on being able to do more with less at their respective peaks. I would take both these guys over someone like Messier, however, whom most would have well ahead of Joe and Steve. I believe those guys were much better leaders as well.

Just listenend to an interview with Dino and he said he heard through the grapevine Bowman was the most vocal supporter of him getting in. His dad passed away a few years ago, shortly after he missed the Hall by one vote and his mom just passed away a few months ago.

Brutal. Happy for Dino, but he simply is not at the level of guys like Makarov, Gilmour, Howe and Oates. Ciccarelli will probably open it up for a lot of 80s and early 90s compilers. Ultimately, he's under a PPG in a high scoring era. Pretty ridiculous they are now favoring women over european greats whom had little to no NHL play.

All for it

I would - just seemed like a much more dominant player (more scoring titles, better in best-on-best tournaments and vs. NHL games). Mikhailov should get in, along with Firsov. I really don't think you can question whether they were amongst N. America's best at their respective times.

Loved Dino, but am not convinced he belongs... definitely not before a number of other players. I think he was a better player than Nieuwendyk, but not having a Cup obviously kills your chances - as well as the whole character issues. He's a true compiler who racked up a ton of goals without ever really being a dominant player in the game (scored over 50 goals only twice and never a post-season all-star at RW). I like to see guys with high peaks but low careers (Bure, Lindros) in before the guys with high career but lower peaks (Ciccarelli, Niewendyk, Adreychuk, Fleury). Players like Makarov, Howe, Oates, Gilmour, Vachon and Tremblay had both peak and career.

Traded with our assistant coach (MacLean) to St. Louis for Bernie Federko and Tony McKegney. Federko played one season and promptly retired. McKegney scored 3 points as a Red Wing before he was again traded for spare parts. Oates went on to score over 100 pts the very next season and would score another 1,200 pts in his career. Even MacLean outproduced Federko in 1990. Probably the closest Yzerman ever came to outright criticism of Wings management.

If your argument is Nieuwedyk has been on better teams than Oates, I'll agree to that. But I tried to list individual accomplishments for Oates, while more than half of yours were team accomplishments. As a 2nd line center, Nieuwendyk was definitely good... good enough if there was a Hall of Good. Oates was great. All Star Games are nothing but popularity contests, but Oates did play in one more than Nieuwendyk. His 2nd Team All Star Selection I value much more - something Nieuwendyk never accomplished. These guys started playing at the same time, and Nieuwendyk never approached what Oates was able to accomplish: Oates top points were -- 142, 115, 112, 102, 99, 92, 82, 82 Compared to Nieundyk's -- 95, 92, 85, 82, 75, 75, 69, 55 Not even comparable. His Conn Smythe is great, but in his other two Cup years he was hardly a key component: with 23 points in 39 games and a -2 rating. Oates beats Joe in everything but goal scoring, rookie year and the teams they were on. Oates scored by far more points, as well as PPG in both the regular season and playoffs. Both were similar two-way players. I have a hard time supporting a forward who never even once placed in the Top 10 of the league in points. That does not scream Hall of Fame to me.

In context, 86 forwards last year earned between $1-2m --- Bertuzzi finished 15th in points out of all of them.

A handy tool for looking at line combinations: http://www.dobberhockey.com/frozenpool_linecombo.php

The case for Adam Oates, one of the top playmakers in the history of the NHL: - Highest point seasons were: 142, 115, 112, 102, 99, 92. 142 pts was in a year where Cam Neely was injured. Top 3 in points three times. Top 10 another 4 times. - Led the league in assists 3 times. Also finished 2, 2, 3, 3, 4, 4, 5, 6, 7 in assists. Both Neely and Hull had by far their best goal-scoring seasons being centered by Oates. - 2nd Team All-Star selection at center -- against such competition as Gretzky, Lemeiux, Messier and Yzerman. - Was a Hart finalist - Was a good two-way player and class act. Oates was twice the player of someone like Nieuwendyk - Oates was a true 1st line center and star in the NHL. Not only did he compile a lot of points like Nieuwendyk (Oates is 6th all-time in assists and 16th in points), but he also finished amongst the top scorers in the league numerous times (Nieuwendyk was never once Top 10 in points).

The case for Mark Howe, easily one of the best players *not* in the Hall of Fame: - Made the 1st All-Star Team 3 times, more than Salming, Langway, Savard, LaPointe, Murphy and several other HOFers. In fact, no other player at any position with 3 1st Team selections has been rejected by the Hall. - Twice a finalist in Hart Trophy voting. - A top defenseman of the 80s, perhaps the deepest the league has ever been in terms of top-end talent on the blueline (Bourque, Chelios, Coffey are the only ones ahead of him in the 80s) - Generally considered the best defenceman in the history of the Philadelphia Flyers, one of the most successful teams of the last 40 years. - Led his team in +/- 7 times in his career, only Bourque and Orr have done that more often. +400 over his career. His +85 in `86 hasn`t been bettered by anyone since then. - Made it to the Stanley Cup Final twice. - All-time top playoff point-getter in the WHA. 8th All-time in WHA scoring. - Had a great career after coming back from a near-fatal extremely gruesome on-ice injury. Class-act player.

Would love, love, love to see the Cup-winning line of Z/D/H back regularly. Teams simply had no answer to this line. I think Hudler, Filppula and Franzen would tear it up as well.

Joe Nieuwendyk would be one of the weakest selections ever - I can't believe there is such a media push to get him in on a first ballot. Basically a 2nd line center not once in the Top 10 for points and never a post-season all-star team selection. I'm hoping to see Makarov, Oates, Gilmour and Mark Howe.... but wouldn't be surprised to see them all left out, again. Tremblay and Vachon are the other two I believe deserve to get in as well, sooner than later. As for builder: our own Jimmy Devellano certainly deserves it.