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Red Kelly was robbed of the Hart in 1954 (he was runner-up to goalie Al Rollins who had a losing record and was not even a 1st or 2nd Team All-Star that year). His Hart record is better than every single Red Wing of all-time, except for Gordie Howe (finishing 2nd, 3rd, 3rd and 4th - not too shabby for a defenseman). The Norris family actually created the Norris Trophy with him in mind (all-around play as a defenseman) and fittingly he won it the very first year it was awarded. He was the unanimous 1st Team All-Star 4 times before that - bringing his Norris total to 5. And he won 4 Lady Byngs. 6-time first team all-star and 2-time 2nd Team All-Star as a Red Wing. He captained as many Red Wings teams to a championship as Gordie Howe, and he won more Cups with Detroit than Howe. Kelly only fails two. The Vezina in Sawchuk's time is the modern day Jennings Trophy - Sawchuk would have had 3 modern day Vezinas as a Red Wing.

Gordie Howe fails two of those. Ted Lindsay fails two. Sid Abel fails two. Delvecchio fails three. Sawchuk fails three. Yzerman fails one.

There were also a lot less teams. Though I count about 30 retired by the end of 1985.

Just to list them: Years with Detroit - Player - Years Outside of Detroit 25 Howe 7 24 Delvecchio 0 22 Yzerman 0 14 Lindsay 3 14 Sawchuk 7 13 Kelly 7 12 Abel 2 Especially given the context in which Kelly left Detroit, I fail to see that as an adequate reason to not honor and claim one of the greatest defenseman of all-time as one of our own. If Kelly had simply retired after being traded from the Red Wings, like he had originally planned on, obviously that would not be a reason. I fail to see how having success after Detroit should be held against him.

And outside of Howe, Aurie and Yzerman, all of the numbers hanging up there were retired decades after they stopped playing for Detroit: Abel's was retired in 1995 Delvecchio's in 1991 Lindsay's in 1991 Sawchuk's in 1994

Like Lindsay, Kelly ran afoul with Jack Adams - Adams literally made Kelly play with a broken ankle, and when Red was questioned by a reporter about his poor play, his response was "I dunno, maybe it was the ankle". Off to Siberia (Rangers at the time) with him, which prompted Kelly to retire. It was not his choice to leave Detroit (unlike Fedorov). Jack Adams was a brilliant coach, but he also prematurely broke up the Detroit Dynasty of the 50s (and was a complete and utter *******), IMO. It does bother me that Kelly has his number hanging in Toronto, when he was twice the player for Detroit.

How about un-retiring jerseys of players you've never seen? As was the case with Larry Aurie. And Red Kelly was better for Detroit than any player currently hanging up there, outside of Howe.

Good point - though I did mean Red Kelly and Larry Aurie Konstantinov was definitely on track for that honor.

I agree - unless they're an elite prospect, most teams aren't touching russians with a ten foot pole. Wouldn't mind at all to see a gamble on a russki, as they can be had well after they might typically go. And I dare say the Wings might also have more success enticing them to the NHL, given the history.

See my signature....

And Smith was leading all defensemen in points last time I checked Nice to see some promising prospects in the system again - now we just need to ensure they never drive a car

Crazy ***** - Buckcherry

That is hilarious

Still a big difference between a hit coming straight at you, and one from your blindside where the head is targeted (which the GMs recently designated). Havlat even looks up to see Kronwall coming, before the hit. One is definitely more "dirty" than the other and one definitely shows less "respect" for the safety of the other player. In-game consequences often have a bearing on the suspension - if it was not caught in-game, there is a higher likely-hood of a suspension. See Neidermayer and Pronger on Holmstrom in the 08 playoffs -- Niedermayer received a penalty and no suspension; Pronger received no penalty and a suspension.

I don't think it is the same thing: 1) Not a blindside hit 2) Head was not targeted 3) Kronwall (and the team) was severely punished in the game - he was thrown out - Cooke went unpenalized

I flip-flop on the instigator penalty -- personally hate it, but can empathize with the other viewpoint as well. Looking at it: I'd like to see them try it without the extra 2 minutes.... I think escalating penalties for more altercations in the same game is fine. Utterly hate this rule, especially since 47.22 essentially gives an out-clause for star players:

Cooke is a piece of s*** and I am getting really sick of the Penguins getting away this crap constantly... Brutal blindside elbow to the head and away from the play: no suspension. But Gonchar is a "good guy" so no suspension. It seems every excuse in the book is pulled out for the Penguins this year. But now if it happens to a Penguin? See Carcillo's (repeat offender, just like Cooke) cheapshot to Max Talbot: Suspension of course. My Penguins anti-bias aside - I am curious how many times "good guys" can get away with it because they "don't have any suspensions"?

The Eric Cartman version rules Mama Told Me Not to Come - Three Dog Night

Fashion kills Legos dead:

Datsyuk might just be the best forechecker in the league - he reminds me of a [blue] shark out there. Zetterberg is a better backchecker. Detroit falls apart when they are not utilizing two forecheckers... watch for it in a game, it's almost certain a goal is coming against them.

All the Fools Sailed Away - Dio

I Still Blame You - Rollinghead

Yeah, the Habs with Harvey on the ice cleaned up on power plays and forced that change to come about. The Oilers in the 80s did the same with simultaneous minors (4 on 4 hockey) that they changed that to an offsetting penalty.

You would have hated Primeau when he was with the Wings -- absolutely infuriating. Think Lang, only more whiny. He didn't start playing to his potential until with Phily. My list: 1) Konstantinov 2) Yzerman 3) Lidstrom 4) Larionov 5) Kocur 6) Fischer 7) Datsyuk 8) Hasek 9) Hudler 10) Zetterberg

Didn't notice you were being that picky -- Ace Bailey then Bingo. Most of the concussion even today are from heads hitting the ice and walls - not the initial hit itself.