egroen

It's Raining Men -- The Weather Girls

33 pts in 26 games now... by far the NCAA's highest scoring defenseman. He and Nyquist are really having good years in the NCAAs, Nyquist is 2nd in scoring w/ 40 pts in 26 games. Nice seeing some size in a lot of the defenseman prospects -- Kindl (6'4), Smith (6'2), Nicastro (6'3), Lashoff (6'3) and Kolosov (6'4). At least 2 guys that have a shot at being Top 4 defenseman in the NHL and I'm hoping Kolosov could be a bigger Lilja.

Williams was not well received in Atlanta -- no way they take him back. I also doubt Atlanta is interested in rentals right now.

No team "selling" at the deadline will be interested in our one-year or last-year-remaining contract guys -- why the heck would a non-playoff team be interested in a rental? No seller will be interested in the likes of Williams, Miller, Bertuzzi, Maltby, Lilja, Holmstrom, May... and even Lebda. Miller and Eaves will be RFAs, so might get a tiny interest. Lebda and some of the others could still get interest from a "buyer" still in playoff contention... but I doubt Holland is that interested in helping too many playoff teams this year, at the very least no Western Conference teams. In summary: Holland is probably looking to shop Lebda (or whatever he needs to) to an Eastern Conference team in playoff contention (for whatever draft pick he can get).

Though to be fair, you have to be open in order to take all those shots, or create those opportunities yourself, and Ovechkin is clearly the best in the league at that.

Players typically have very good games their first game back from injury... I don't even mind if Franzen's skating is off, as long as he parks himself in front of the net - the Wings desperately need someone who can bury those pucks infront of the net.

And Gretzky's first professional year doesn't 'count' because it was in the WHA.

Sure -- Mario's PPG in his first 12 seasons was better than Gretzky's career PPG of 20 seasons. Gretzky's first 12 seasons was much higher, though.

I always assumed it was part of the fine print when accepting the terms prior to registering at an online forum.

If Gretzky had retired at the same time as Lemieux first did, Wayne's PPG would have been higher than Mario's as well. Of course playing a longer career is going to bring down your PPG. After 12 seasons: 2.32 PPG -- Gretzky (and Wayne played a lot more games during those 12 seasons, to boot) 2.01 PPG -- Lemieux Orr's prime is arguably better than Gretzky's (I would say yes), but if you factor career and playoffs into the equation, Gretzky (and Howe) blows him away.

Playing full seasons, year after year after year, with full post-seasons takes a huge toll. Mario literally averaged 53 games a season, when he was not taking entire years off. Sure... we'll never know, and maybe Eric Lindros could have beaten both of them. I just do not feel it was very likely.

And I think if Wayne was healthy he would have challenged Gretzky's + Lemieux's real numbers. Lemieux also benefitted from so much time off the ice... despite that, his PPG never topped Gretzky's, even at Mario's healthiest.

It's a possibility... though I wonder what a 'forecast' for Gretzky would have looked like after his first 5 seasons goals were: 1) 51 2) 55 3) 92 4) 71 5) 87 1,200? ... or Mike Bossy: 1) 53 2) 69 3) 51 4) 68 5) 64 ... or Brett Hull: 1) 32 2) 41 3) 72 4) 86 5) 70 ... or Mario Lemieux: 1) 43 2) 48 3) 54 4) 70 5) 85

Howe at his peak is rivaled by only Gretzky, Orr and Lemieux... but his career is better than all 3 of them. 20 years in the top 5 in league scoring!!! Gretzky did it 16 years and Lemieux only 9 times.

It was not Gretzky's linemates that made him (again, he was scoring over 100+ pts over his linemates). 1992 just happens to be the year Gretzky's injury problems started (he is also 4 1/2 years older than Yzerman) and he retired in 1999 -- from 1992 to 1999, Gretzky still outproduced Yzerman 715 pts to 683 pts.

Then why wasn't Yzerman scoring 200 pts in the 80s/early-90s? Why was only Gretzky benefitting from this "lack of talent"? Yes, there were fewer Euros at the time -- but there were also fewer teams (about 10 fewer teams, in fact). Almost 10% of the league in the 80s was Euro... and that percentage is only about 20% today.

Gretzky also outproduced VERY high quality linemates by 100+ pts a season. In 1982, when Gretzky scored 212 pts: Glen Anderson was 2nd in scoring with 105 pts Paul Coffey had 89 pts Mark Messier had 88 pts Jari Kurri, Gretzky's linemate, had 86 pts I think a prime Gordie Howe would be a 130-160 pt beast on two skates, if he were playing in the league today (assuming he was born sometime in the 80s and grew up with similar advantages as all hockey players do today). A 180 pt player in the 80s.

How about Steve Yzerman? If we can agree Yzerman was a better offensive machine in the 80s than he was in the 2000s (in his 30s)... than your assumption is pretty easy to disprove. At the age of 34 in 2000, Yzerman was Top 10 in league scoring while winning a Selke. This is post-I don't know how many surgeries and with Yzerman playing a two-way game players like Ovechkin, Crosby, Thornton and Malkin could only dream of approaching, and Yzerman was also a leader in PK minutes that year. And yet Gretzky utterly demolished a prime, pre-injuries Yzerman who was not as shackled by defensive responsibilities by 50-100 pts.

Alright, I can at least take this post more seriously than the last one -- You have to remember, Gretzky *did* play in the deadpuck era, when scorng was even lower than it is now. At the age of 37, a visibly hobbled and shadow-of-his-former-self Gretzky put up 97 points in 1997 and was 4th in league scoring. The next year, at the age of 38, he was 3rd in scoring with 90 pts in 1998. Both years he led the league in assists. He retired after the next year. No one is even close to 180 or even 150 pts in today's game because there is NO ONE like Gretzky, or even Lemieux. In his 20s, Gretzky was consistently destroying the next best scorers in the league by margins of 30-40%.... margins simply unheard of throughout the entire history of the NHL. Nowadays you see margins under 10%. Even if we assume Crosby, Thornton and Ovechkin are 'better' than guys like Steve Yzerman, Jaromir Jagr, Mike Bossy, Brian Trottier, Pat LaFontaine and Phil Esposito... all of whom were able to put up 140-150+ pts at the time, Gretzky was still able to destroy them by 60-80 pts. Yes, it was easier to score at the time, but it was easier for everyone.... not just Gretzky. Mario Lemieux scored 161 pts in the deadpuck era... and not even he could match Gretzky at his best.

So in other words, a prime Gretzky is no better than Thornton, Crosby and a post-prime Jagr. Ok.

A lot of people disagree, but I believe he would consistently put up 150+ pt seasons with a few monster 180+ seasons. Gretzky would tear up butterfly goalies and thrive in a no clutching and grabbing league.

I'd rather have guys like Janik and TKO available in the playoffs, in case of injuries, over Kindl right now.

Is it 3 days to clear?

LOL, whatever...

Stuart and Ericsson need to learn from Rafalski how to turn over the puck without it leading directly to a scoring opportunity.