egroen

You can go over the cap by 10% during the off-season, though I am sure Holland would prefer not to sign & trade. It is looking more and more like the NHL will not be able to keep Hudler from the KHL. $2.5m for Williams seems excessive -- he only made $2.2m last year. Opinion piece: http://www.wingingitinmotown.com/2009/7/27...ebate?ref=yahoo

No doubt. He initially signed for exactly the same with NY as what Holland was offering -- $4m.

PRospal, that is! http://blogs.tampabay.com/lightning/ He's due for one of his "on-again" seasons of 70+ points.

I was thrilled to see Shanahan walk away from the $4m per season contract Holland had offered. IMO, it was apparent he was no longer worth that - especially to this team. But yeah, if we are now talking less than $1m for a guy who would be a regular on the 2nd PP (we lost three players from that unit, by the way), will pot some timely goals and perhaps throw knuckles a few times... what's not to like? I certainly would not mind it, but I doubt it will happen. I just think he wants to stay on the East Coast.

Do you have any idea how difficult it is to reply to your replies in quotes? Could you stop that, please. Wings can afford $2.5m on Prospal right now, losing nothing. Tell me, who will be available at the trade deadline that is only a season away from 30+ goals and 70+ points? And just how much do you think the Wings would have to trade away for that? So you basically agree with everything I said, but still think I am ignorant for saying it? Yes - Prospal MIGHT take less money from a true top contender (in the Finals the past 2 straight seasons). The fact he has never won a Cup and the fact he is guaranteed over $6.6 million from Tampa Bay certainly makes that a hell of a lot more likely. Are you seriously suggesting Holland would not be interested in this unique situation? Or that he would be stupid for sending out feelers... as you are definitely implying I am? Point being - Holland is not a moron who thinks a 55+ point player is worth jack-s*** unless he is amazingly defensively. Unlike you. You can have all the defense in the world, but it does you no good if you are not scoring goals. Do you forget 2003, 2004, 2006 playoffs? Great defense - couldn't score. I will join you in "hoping" this team can play better defense than last year, with Lidstrom, Rafalski, Draper and Maltby all a year older and some veteran players replaced by rookies. Now if Holland had signed someone like McKee for $800k - that would be a significant defensive improvement. But I am not going to kid myself and think this roster somehow got any better defensively... and definitely not the "significant improvement" you claim. I don't understand... you think a non-playoff team would be interested in trading away assets at the trade deadline for Lebda, whose contract is up at the end of the season? Not even Don Waddel is that stupid. Were you hoping Lebda would bag us Kovalchuk? Oh wait... Kovalchuk is not good defensively so you wouldn't want him. Why would any team looking to "shed salary" trade for a roster player with an expiring contract at the trade deadline? To help them finish above a lottery pick? I think it is pretty clear at this point you have no idea what you are talking about. The same Holland that bitched the NHL was tying his hands by forcing him to wait on the Hudler proceeding before he could sign any free agents? Are you just conveniently forgetting the situation Holland is in? Your panic button is cute, bravo. Strawman arguments are very witty and original. The Red Wings lost a full 1/3 of their offense from the previous season. That is a fact. Now you want to act as if anyone acknowledging that fact is panicking? Because both Holland and Devellano have acknowledged that fact as well. If, as you claim he is doing, Holland sits on his hands and watches Prospal sign with Pittsburgh for $1m without making an offer -- well, that would be pretty stupid wouldn't it? http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/20...players_in.html "Detroit Red Wings general manager Ken Holland has made inquiries and received calls from agents of players seeking a contract as the team continues its search for an offensive-minded forward." "Holland said he possibly can spend between $2 million and $3 million but would prefer not to use it all on one player. The Red Wings would have roughly $2.5 million in salary cap space if they send forward Justin Abdelkader ($850,000 cap hit) to Grand Rapids (AHL) at the start of the season. They can free up additional cap space by trading a defenseman before the start of the season, which Holland said he is inclined to do." "He said acquiring somebody with goal-scoring ability is his top priority after losing Marian Hossa, Mikael Samuelsson and Jiri Hudler this month." Hmmm... sounds like Holland is not content to sit on his ass until the trade deadline. Sounds like he is "concerned" at all the offense lost.

Ericsson has a lot of promise, but he is not yet as strong as Lilja defensively and far away from him on the PK. Ericsson had 17 giveaways in 2009 playoffs, while Lilja had only 2 in the 2008 playoffs. He turns the puck over a lot more than Lilja - it's just he has been fortunate enough to have nothing terrible happen on his gaffs, like Lilja has, and have it be pointed out to us by multiple replays. Helm really is not a defensive forward (he is an energy guy) - and Babcock did not use him as one. We all remember the sweet PK he killed all by himself, but Babcock only had him on the PK for 24 seconds a game in the playoffs, despite a full 12 minutes a game. He was Detroit's 8th PK option at forward. Helm will be a great player to have out there, for multiple reasons - but those reasons do not include scoring and defensive play. At least not yet.

Now how many get that obscure reference?

It's really funny how Dallas Drake has taken on mythic proportions around here. The dude was unwanted in St. Louis after putting up 12 points in 60 games. He then put up 6 points in 65 games for Detroit, and most here wanted him dropped. He did play great in the post-season -- but "great" added up to all of 4 points in 22 games. Please. Another Dallas Drake is not going to be the savior of this team. I would prefer Shanahan (not that I think he would come back to Detroit), a guy who still has some bark and could be a PP specialist and pot you 20 goals. Heck, you can still grab your 'Dallas Drake' at league minimum - but let's not pretend he was more than what he was.

Ericsson will help improve the defense, but he is a far cry from Lilja defensively - downgrade there. Helm is an energy guy, looks lost in his own end, but could get better - not better defensively than Hossa or even Kopecky - downgrade there. And Leino is pretty much Hudler defensively. Where's the "significant improvement"? So our offense has taken a nose dive, and our defense has been downgraded as well. If you do not think a forward like Prospal is worth more than $700k you are a blithering buffoon. So all 16 playoff teams are created equal? Do you really believe Prospal would demand the same money from Detroit or Pittsburgh that he would from the Blue Jackets? Do you pay attention at all to free agent signings each year? We need a player that can make a difference -- and a player that is capable of putting up 80 points can make a big difference. The unique situation surrounding this player (bought out) may very well make him affordable, and plus you can still have your all-important 3rd line plugger. Detroit won in 08 largely because of incredible offensive depth coming from all the lines. They only got as far as they did last year because of incredible depth stepping in with all the injuries. As it is right now, Detroit is a 2 line team. Hudler and Samuelsson combined for 49 points the last 2 post-seasons... and you describe them as junk 3rd line players whom AHLers can just walk in and replace. Get a clue. Darren Helm had all of 5 pts in the playoffs last year with pretty good minutes (4 the year before). Leino had 2 pts in 7 games. You'll also have to explain to me how Detroit will just magically be better defensively with their roster changes from last year. LOL! Are you kidding me??? Lebda!? You're suggesting Holland dangle LEBDA at the trade deadline? That is too funny! You do realize Lebda in that case is a RENTAL, being signed only until the end of the season. Yeah, a 3rd pairing defenseman rental is really going to bring in a difference making roster player at the trade deadline! The only way Lebda has value is if he is traded at the beginning of the season, so a team can enjoy his services all year at a low cap hit. Ah yes, you're one of those posters who enjoys portraying their ignorance onto Holland. Weren't you adamant "Hudler is NOT worth $3m" and that luckily Holland was not as crazy as "SOME posters" as well? Turns out Holland was in line with my posted thoughts and felt Hudler was indeed worth $3m. He is not an idiot. Defensive forwards can be had in the NHL for a dime a dozen and at league minimum. What gets the dollars in the NHL are guys that can ultimately put up points. I'm sorry, but Holland recognizes this, or he never would have offered Hudler good money to stay on the team. If you do not think Holland is interested in Prospal - a true scorer and playmaker, with size and whom outhit all of Detroit's players last year (meaning Babcock would actually play him) - you are really selling Holland short. Do you think he is a fool? You'd prefer him to sit on his thumbs and hope an old, slow, injury-ridden Grier can play on the 3rd line and put up 20 points? Being concerned is not "panicking". Both Holland and Jimmy Devellano have expressed the exact same concern in interviews. "Fine" is not acceptable for the Detroit Red Wings.

The Czech news is reporting that Hudler is going to the KHL and will sign with Dynamo Moscow with a press conference later today. http://hokej.sport.cz/hokej/kontinentalni-...i-do-ruska.html Weird.

Lovejoy is currently the 7th defenseman and is not counting towards the cap at your site there (because he is on a two-way contract) -- Pittsburgh would need to then either send down a forward or trade one.

The Wings have $1.6m in current cap space and can make around a $2.5m offer without losing any significant pieces to their roster. Holland was offering Hudler $3m - and Prospal is an upgrade. The Penguins have $1.1m and would have more difficulty than the Wings in clearing up more space.... though the opportunity to play on Malkin's wing would have to be extremely enticing. You've never heard of players taking discounts for a chance at the Cup? These buyout guys are unique situations. McKee did it and so did Bertuzzi last year. They're already getting good money from their old club, so why not go to a top contender? But we did not win the Cup without Hudler and Samuelsson - in fact, they were a large part of the offensive depth that won it for us. Trade deadline acquisitions require trading away assets -- and chances are, for what the Wings are usually willing to trade away, Prospal is much better than anyone they would have a chance to acquire. It's also nice when players have all year to gel with their linemates. I 100% disagree. I hate seeing draft picks and prospects go for mere plugggers at the trade deadline. Sign someone now and you lose nothing. If there is an injury, you can still exceed the cap by that same pro-rated amount so you can still make a trade deadline acquisition if you need to.

Let's just say Prospal is one of those crazy Euros that actually wants to win a Cup once in his career. Pittsburgh currently has $1.1m in cap space and Detroit has $1.6m in cap space.... without making any changes.

What is a "logical salary" for a player that was making $3.5m on an awful team? And who already is guaranteed 1/3 of that salary over the next 6 years? I have to think a $2m a year offer from the Detroit Red Wings would be taken very seriously. Jay McKee was making $4m a year before he was bought out and just signed for $800k with the Penguins. It's crazy to think anyone else would consider doing that for a contender. Crazy! Sure - after losing Hossa, Samuelsson and Hudler a little offensive help would be such a waste! What this team needs is someone who would be lucky to tally 10 pts, not 70! Right. There's no reason to get better just for the sake of getting better! Let's not make Ilitch spend up to the cap... this recession has hit him hard!

Holland was offering Hudler up to $3m per year -- Prospal will be cheaper than that, bring similar (or more) offense and more size and hitting. Wings have $1.6m - $1.8m in cap space currently, with Abdelkader on the roster. Holland was planning on trading a defenseman anyways (let's say Lebda at $650k) and you now have $2.3m in cap space. If Lilja is on LTIR you have more, and if Abdelkader ($850k cap hit) stays in GR and is replaced by a league minimum type guy you have even more space.

He's right - I was wrong. http://www.nhlscap.com/cap_faq.htm#buyouts

LOL! Now take a look at the teams he has played on. He is slow and not good good defensively -- sound familiar? This is your Hudler replacement, at potentially half the price. If he could skate like the wind, play good defense AND put up those points he would be Hossa -- and be WELL out of Detroit's price range. Though he did have more hits last year than any Red Wing forward.

Jay McKee was bought out and signed for a huge discount for the Penguins -- Prospal might be inclined to do something similar.... just hopefully not with the Pens

Not bad at all.

He'll be making the $2.3m from Tampa Bay for the next 3 years. Anything over $1.2m from another team for him can be considered a raise.

Tried Kid Rock's new beer at the beer festival in Ypsilanti this past weekend -- meh. Pretty much your average run-of-the-mill lager.

1) They were ready to go with Osgood 2) Vernon was good - but I always thought the MVP should have gone to Fedorov 3) Yeah, I loved Kozlov and really miss him -- and he is still scoring and clutch as always! It was no secret Hasek wanted the hell out of Buffalo (can't blame him), so they were lucky to get even Kozlov and a 1st round pick from Detroit.

I think Osgood will have a better chance than Ciccarelli -- no character issues + Cups + 2nd Team All Star Osgood also has had a better career than Ciccarelli, whom is ranked #16 all-time in goals and #62 in points (much lower if we adjust for era), while Osgood is #10 all-time in wins. Though to be honest, if I had a vote, I'm not entirely sure I would vote for either of them.

I find it ironic you are one of the biggest proponents of Ciccarelli getting into the HHoF around here, but apparently not Osgood. They are essentially the same player at different positions... though Osgood has Cups and a runner-up Vezina. There is no question Hasek (best ever), Roy, Brodeur and Belfour deserve to be in before Osgood - but Osgood could very well get in based on his career.

One nice thing about Osgood's terrible regular season last year is I think it pretty easily puts to rest the whole idea that "anyone's grandma could look good in Detroit as the goaltender". Clearly this is not the case (Hasek also proved that in the 08 playoffs). Osgood has the following: 2 Jennings Trophies 2 All Star Game appearances 1 2nd Team All Star Selection (in a year he was runner-up for the Vezina) He has finished seasons 2, 3, 4, 7, 9 in shutouts 2, 8, 10 in save percentage 1, 2, 3, 6, 10 in goals against average 1, 3, 4, 8, 8, 8 in wins He had a Conn Smythe worthy playoffs in 2008 (better than Cam Ward) and was the odds-on favorite for the Conn Smythe if Detroit had won in 2009. He would be far from the best goalie to ever go into the Hall of Fame, but he wouldn't be the worst either. Osgood compares quite favorable to Grant Fuhr, Billy Smith, Bernie Parent, Gump Worsley, Chuck Rayner, Alec Connell and is better than Gerry Cheevers, Harry Lumley, Hap Holmes and Roy Worters.