egroen

That was respectable... but he still deserves whomping next season.

This Penguins team has as much in common with the 91/92 teams as this current Red Wings team has with the Detroit Dynasty team of the 50s.

And really - it is 4 Cups in 10 Seasons (with the lockout).

'92 Pens have top-end offensive talent, but the '97 Wings more than match them in depth, offensively. Defensively, it is a slaughter. Pittsburgh gave up more goals that year (308 GA) than all but the Nordiques and Sharks. Only one team in the league gave up less goals than the '97 Wings (197 GA) -- the New Jersey Devils.

Lidstrom, Holmstrom, Maltby, Draper and McCarty were all on that '97 team.

Detroit is naturally 3rd, but how exactly does that equate to "suck"?

Well I doubt he jumps straight to centering the 1st line.

The cap is going up -- Revenues were up about 5% during the regular season, and there were a LOT of long series in the playoffs.

Chelios was a STUD in the '07 playoffs with Schneider and Kronwall out.

About $250k Cheli was making close to league minimum.

Have you forgotten Bourque? Chelios is a top 10 defenseman ever, and arguably one of the greatest shutdown defensemen ever -- but Bourque and Lidstrom are Top 5 guys. Playing a long time will only hurt his reputation with teenagers and pessimistic churls who rip on their home team every chance they get. Re: earlier post -- Chelios was NOT the reason we lost Quincey. Meech and Lebda were.

The only reason to separate them is for away games. They should never be separated again on home-ice.

Sundin was offered what Hossa ended up taking, last year -- he did not want to play in Detroit. He was a huge disappointment in Vancouver and I would not touch him for anything more than $1m.

The Lady Byng is one of the oldest and most well-respected trophy in the NHL. Anyone who turns their nose up at it is a blithering idiot. Go ahead and check out the past winners -- these are all guys who are game-changers and epitomize what it is to be a professional athlete. To win the Lady Byng as well as the Selke is nothing short of amazing .

Crosby brought out bandwagon fans from the woodwork -- and those guys are simply annoying. They have absolutely no clue the organization was almost doomed three times - twice saved by Lemieux and once by Crosby. Long-time fans know this and respect it. Their fan-base should be a lot less annoying in a few years. The Wings have had almost 20 years of bandwagon fans now... so the majority have found a semblance of a clue over the years.

I think the "splitting them up" experiment should end. You just should not tinker with the kind of chemistry they have, and we have plenty of forwards capable of playing a good two-way game, which was the number one reason to split them up.

Greatest American hockey player ever! Loved having him on this team and will really miss him being interviewed. Really hope he keps to the area, with his restaurants and all. Would love to see him get into coaching - but I would not be surprised to see him play a year or two more. Just a stud.

Filppula is not a goal scorer and he is not a playmaker -- most of his assists in the playoffs were either secondary assists, or assists where he simply gave Hossa or Franzen the puck and let them do their thing. We have pretty much seen his offensive potential -- and it is a little better than a prime Draper. He has the ability to generate chances based on his speed, is at least capable of potting in rebounds if he is in the right position and can make decent passes -- but he does not create too many opportunities on his own. He is far more valuable as a defensive forward and PKer that is strong on the puck and can carry it.

Nice writeup! -- it's amazing going over draft lists and seeing the amount of outright busts. Detroit is a great scouting and drafting team, but have entire years where they draft nothing but sludge. The 1989 draft is probably the greatest of all time, but I just got a laugh looking at the 1983 draft: 1983 Entry 4 1 Steve Yzerman C Peterborough Petes [OHL] 1514 692 1063 1755 924 1983 Entry 25 2 Lane Lambert C Saskatoon Blades [WHL] 283 58 65 123 521 1983 Entry 46 3 Bob Probert L Brantford Alexanders [OHL] 935 163 221 384 3300 1983 Entry 68 4 Dave Korol D Winnipeg Warriors [WHL] 1983 Entry 86 5 Petr Klima L Czech National Team [intl] 786 313 260 573 671 1983 Entry 88 5 Joey Kocur D Saskatoon Blades [WHL] 821 80 82 162 2519 1983 Entry 106 6 Chris Pusey G Brantford Alexanders [OHL] 1 0 0 0 0 1983 Entry 126 7 Bob Pierson L London Knights [OHL] 1983 Entry 146 8 Craig Butz Kelowna Wings [WHL] 1983 Entry 166 9 Dave Sikorski D Cornwall Royals [OHL] 1983 Entry 186 10 Stu Grimson L Regina Pats [WHL] 729 17 22 39 2113 1983 Entry 206 11 Jeff Frank Regina Pats [WHL] 1983 Entry 226 12 Chuck Chiatto Cranbrook H.S. (Mich.) This class amassed 10,048 Penalty Minutes in the NHL!!! ... And to top it off, they drafted a Pusey.

1) Bobby Hull 2) Ted Lindsay That's easy, and then it gets tough. Do they have to be NHLers? Because Kharlamov is viewed by many as the greatest russian player ever. Firsov is another russian left winger that should be in the discussion. Delvecchio and Abel sometimes played left wing - but I'll keep them out. 3) Frank Mahovlich 4-8) Aurel Joliat; Dickie Moore; Cy Denneny; Toe Blake; John Bucyk Ovechkin has a good shot of being at the top of the list by the time he is through. Jagr produced at that level with or without Francis -- just like Oates racked up the assists with or without Hull. Trottier (a lot stronger defensively and finished in the top 5 in assists more times than Francis) was twice the player that Francis was, so was Potvin.

I have always liked Zubov and thought he was underrated, but I think Howe is a complete level above him. Howe was the runner-up for the Norris three times and was 5th once. In fact, his Hart voting is more impressive than Zubov's Norris voting: Howe was 5th and 3rd (behind Gretzky and Lemieux) in Hart voting -- while Zubov has a 3rd and 4th in Norris votes. Howe's Hart voting shows he could certainly "dominate the game" and be his team's best player. Howe is also a 3 time 1st Team All Star, compared to Zubov with one 2nd All Star Team selection. He finished the 1986 season with a +85, and finished his career with a +400 with 742 pts in 929 games (.80 pts/gm). Excellent career and behind Park, perhaps the best defenseman to never win a Norris.

I have a feeling Sillinger would play in Detroit for a similar salary as Kopecky. Though I am sure it will not happen - I just think it would be neat You gotta love Sillinger!

You are seriously overrating Francis if you think he was boosting Jagr's points and not the other way around. Lemieux of course, but except for the one season they played on separate lines (played less than 50 games together). Jagr's other 4 scoring titles had little to do with his linemates: Look at his top two teammates from the other years he won the scoring title. These Pens weren't the stacked offensive teams from earlier in the decade. 94-95 Francis and Sandstrom 97-98 Francis and Stu Barnes 98-99 Straka and German Titov 99-00 Kovalev and Lang, but they only had 65/66 points in full seasons. Jagr played 63 games and still won the title with 96 points. I could definitely put Bossy ahead of Jagr, and I by default usually do (Jagr is just not that likable and essentially a cherry-picker) but it's tough looking at numbers and the fact Jagr has played at a higher level (offensively) and for much longer. Bossy was better all-around -- but looking at stats here, Jagr beats him hands-down offensively when comparing same years and then has almost ten more years of great play on top of it (also led Omsk to a championship in the lockout year). Bossy played a decent two-way game, but surely not at the level of Trottier, and I'm not sure that really can narrow that gap. Jagr's longevity is impressive, in his mid-30s, he was a hair away from winning the Art Ross and Hart. Won a Hart and was probably robbed of two more (by Pronger and Thornton), had an additional two more runner-ups and had two more top 4 finishes -- Bossy only finished with a 3rd and 4th for the Hart, with Potvin and Trottier usually considered more valuable. Jagr may not have played "physical" (and neither did Bossy) but was next to impossible to knock off the puck, dominating during the clutch & grab years when he would have 1-2 guys draped over him. I guess it just comes down to: Was Bossy's two way play strong enough to over-come not only a higher offensive peak, but 8 more good years on top of it?

I wasn't comparing Neely to Bossy, sheesh -- just that guys with shortened careers tend to get overrated, while guys with long careers sometimes gets underrated -- hell, look at Chris Chelios -- I get laughed at sometimes when I talk about how good he is (was). Uhhh, Bossy was playing with a much better team than Jagr ever was. He easily tops Bossy offensively, it just matters how great you think Bossy was defensively.