LIDDYGIBBY5

I'll give you $10. I refuse to overpay

or they could ride the team chemistry that they had to another run for the cup. Don't get me wrong Ryder is a very good winger, but they have been able to make things work with Richards. Ryder is just going to want they same kind of money a few years later and you don't know wether he will fit in.

Why would TB even want to do that?

Not happening. Zetts will be signed soon and he is a future captain of our team!

From what I heard about Frazen when he was signed, Holland though he would have been ready to play in Detroit last year had the lockout not occured!

In GR, with out a doubt. With the Wings, probably not this year on a regular basis. I would expect Holland to give a lot of these young guys as much time up in Detroit as possible, with out crossing the limit of games played to make their salary count towards the salary cap. Most people have come to the conclusion that this years team will not be a failure, but not be a top contender.

You have to wonder what they pay these people for their "inside sources?"

Have you ever played? Do you know how the game works? Do you know how the game is going to work? I have been playing hockey for over 20 years and watching it for just as long. I know and have been through seasons of being terrible, not just early playoff exits. You just think you are entitled to a team that wins. Sorry buddy, it doesn't work that way. What does playing have to do with anything? I've preached the same song since I've been on this board. All Holland has to do is address this issue and I'm fine. It's so easy to do also, there are guys sitting out there for nothing. Look at this team from 2003/04 and tell me you think they're ready to compete for a Cup, given what our competition has done. You can't. By the way, Yzerman, McCarty, Devellano, Lewis and Kocur agree with me that Detroit needs to get more grittier and needs more North/South type players. I think they played the game, do you count their opinion Playing the games equals knowing how the game moves. I don't know as much about baseball as I do about hockey because I didn't play much. There is nothing wrong with tough and gritty, it is needed. But what this whole thing was about was Brad Brown being a better signing than Andy Delmore just because Brown is a big goon. What good is bringing a tough guy into the mix, if he can't play hockey? Tough is good, but it will never take the place of talent. I'm not saying that Delmore is the most talented player available, but if it turns out to be true, it's better then signing some one with out offensive or defensive skills just because they weigh 225lbs.

Have you ever played? Do you know how the game works? Do you know how the game is going to work? I have been playing hockey for over 20 years and watching it for just as long. I know and have been through seasons of being terrible, not just early playoff exits. You just think you are entitled to a team that wins. Sorry buddy, it doesn't work that way.

If he has such great leadership qualities, why did the Wild name him Captain and then trade him. You don't just trade your C unless things aren't working out. It wasn't because he was going to be asking for too much money! If you are with Minnesota and things aren't working out, then you have some serious concerens. When was Delmore named captain of anything? Your argument makes no sense. If you want to know the reason why Brown was expendable, it's because they already had Alex Henry and Willie Mitchell back there. If we had ONE mean D-Man with size, I'd be somewhat happy, we have none. I was talking about Brown being captain of the Wild. When your input is asked for by those who makes decisions, what makes you happy will matter. I've been reading your posts for a while and all you want to do is complain about decisions that are made and expect that your oppinions should be taken into account by Holland and Illitch. Get over yourself and give the people who have brought us some cups the benefit of the doubt that they know what they are doing. Shut the board down then.....no one is allowed to doscuss the Red Wings unless you cheerlead and drink the koolaid. Attn forum: Unless you're a Red Wing Homer, like Liddy, you can't have an opinion. Typical homer who doesn't understand that it wasn't Holland who brought us the cups....it was Jim Devellano, Bryan Murray and even Scotty Bowman (He acquired Shanny) that built this team. Holland was haded the keys, and did everything to screw this up, but because the Wings were so deep and the foundation so solid, nothing happened. But since you started watching hockey in 2001/2002, I wouldn't expect you to get that. Lastly, I do complain, myself and others took alot of heat when we said Detroit would lose in the playoffs because they were too finesse, to soft. I think we were proven right, all I ask is that Holland address this issue like he said he would. Now you can go back to being a homer, thanks! It's one thing to discuss, it's another thing to just complain about everything. I have never seen you happy. When it comes down to it, Holland makes the decisions. Illitch has given him the reigns. Bryan Murray, give me a break. I will give you that the names you mentioned are VERY important, but Murray please!

Tough guy talking from behind his computer. Gotta love 'em.

They trade players who will cost money to re-sign. Not players who TSN calls a career number 6-7 D. They do everything they can to resign low value players which is what he is.

What you don't know could fill an encyclopedia.

If he has such great leadership qualities, why did the Wild name him Captain and then trade him. You don't just trade your C unless things aren't working out. It wasn't because he was going to be asking for too much money! If you are with Minnesota and things aren't working out, then you have some serious concerens. When was Delmore named captain of anything? Your argument makes no sense. If you want to know the reason why Brown was expendable, it's because they already had Alex Henry and Willie Mitchell back there. If we had ONE mean D-Man with size, I'd be somewhat happy, we have none. I was talking about Brown being captain of the Wild. When your input is asked for by those who makes decisions, what makes you happy will matter. I've been reading your posts for a while and all you want to do is complain about decisions that are made and expect that your oppinions should be taken into account by Holland and Illitch. Get over yourself and give the people who have brought us some cups the benefit of the doubt that they know what they are doing.

Take some time to look at the players who are UFA's because the didn't get a QO. Teams thought they could save some money on young guys and go after some top names. Talent for cheap is what you have. It won't be spoon fed to you, you will actually take some time to do your own reading and thinking. With some practice, it might enlighten you to what is out there.

If he has such great leadership qualities, why did the Wild name him Captain and then trade him. You don't just trade your C unless things aren't working out. It wasn't because he was going to be asking for too much money! If you are with Minnesota and things aren't working out, then you have some serious concerens.

I'm worried about paying a player who sucks. I don't care if he signs for the league min, that is money that could be spent on someone with a hint of talent.

With the league actually showing some effort with the whole obstruction and nuetral zone holding thing, offensive players are going to be worth a lot. The whole point of the rules changes is to increase scoring. Toughness is still important, but you don't need to be a goon to be tough. People with talent can be tough. Fighting is on the way down. There will still be some, but if you only watch hockey to see a fight, you will be very unhappy with the new product. Look at all the players who didn't get qualifying offers from there teams and are now UFA. Some solid players who are young tough and have talent, for the league min.

With suspensions for fights in the last five mins of a game and the refs throwing around the extra two for instigation for most of the glove droppings, fights are going to be down. I don't need a time machiene to come to that conclusion, just a little common sense.

If he doesn't play offense, and he doesn't play offense, then he is a drain on the salary cap. With the new rules on fighting, he will spend more time suspended or in the box then he will on the ice. Maybe that is a good thing because you admit that he can't play offense or defense!

Not playing terriffic defense seems to be right up his alley. Not playing any defense is what we will get!

So we are willing to just give up great scoring oppertunities when he is on the ice? There isn't going to be the ammount of fighting in the NHL as there has been in previous years. We need good players, not someone who just takes up space and SUCKS.

Perfect player for our needs. You don't want to pay 3 million for a star to sit in the penalty box for 5-7 minutes a night. A bad player who can't play D is not a good player for us. Even if the league cuts 25% of the holding and obstructing out of the game, he becomes worthless because he can't handle someone who skates.

We don't have the luxury of signing every player we want to. That is why we now have a salary cap. We need to get the best players that price will allow. The most important thing to do is re-sign our players. Dats for $3M hopefully, Hank for $2, and Kronwall for $850,000. We have to leave that and about another $1M for a little breathing room under the cap. That all means we can't go crazy signing people and have to be smart about it. We take who we can that fits under the cap. Best players for what we NEED: Brad Brown Todd Simpson Not another soft, puck moving d-man Brad Brown http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/teams/player_bio.asp...id=175&hubName= Assets Plays an intimidating game from the back end, and can also drop the gloves at will. Has excellent leadership qualities. Flaws Lacks foot speed and has trouble going up against shifty forwards in the NHL. Has not developed his defensive game as well as expected. Career potential No. 6 or 7 defenseman. Total NHL 330 2 27 29 -16 747 108 1.85 Sounds like a winner

We don't have the luxury of signing every player we want to. That is why we now have a salary cap. We need to get the best players that price will allow. The most important thing to do is re-sign our players. Dats for $3M hopefully, Hank for $2, and Kronwall for $850,000. We have to leave that and about another $1M for a little breathing room under the cap. That all means we can't go crazy signing people and have to be smart about it. We take who we can that fits under the cap.