Majsheppard

Dustin Brown and/or Selanne please, otherwise no moves. TY.

I know, it seems like a big mistake.

E for Brown. (kidding)

I am not attacking you. I am just saying, I wouldn't give up Tatar. Internet is poor for voice inflection. Thanks for chipping in! I also didn't think of Kindl until you spoke of it. I would move him for Brown, and the same goes for Hudler.

That is EXTREME overpayment. I wouldn't mind Hudler being a part of it... I doubt they would want him. I wouldn't mind making Cleary a part of the deal. I wouldn't mind sending Kindl as a part of the deal. Tatar would be STUPID to move for Brown. I wouldn't mind shipping Emmerton either. I don't know how to massage that, but I think they want to get better right now. I really would even consider offering them Quincey for Brown. Bob McKenzie confirms Brown is in play.

Yeah, me too.... Instead he focuses on getting Quincey and some stupid depth scrub we don't even need I am sure. I would see if they would take Quincey, Cleary, and a second for Brown. I hate writing trade scenarios on a board, because they are usually foolish. I just much rather get Brown than anyone else. Then if Selanne is available we could just add him as well and win a championship.

Not trying to be an *******... but this deserves it's own thread. It is a bad trade for the Wings, because it makes two rival teams better. It is a win-win situation. Also this might affect us if we can get in on Dustin Brown now. . That would make me pretty happy to get him... but I am not getting my hopes up. The cost will be high and they will be looking for different things than what we have to give. Especially after giving up our first for Quincey... Stupid as hell. I wouldn't mind giving the Kings Quincey back for Brown. God I wish that would happen.

STOP IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I don't want to hear about Moen anymore. I will punch a hole in the wall if we foolishly bring Sam back. I would MUCH rather we go after Brown.

NO NO NO NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! Dustin Brown is available. I would make him the top target in my mind. I still would want Selanne if available. Brown would help us a ton, but I don't know if the Wings have what the Kings want. Would likely need a three team trade... Without a first... I don't think we could make anything happen. Maybe they would take Quincey back now for Brown?!?

More interesting, for us anyways... Dustin Brown apparently is in play. I am sure they will want players off the roster, but I would see if maybe we could work another three team deal to get him. I think he would really bolster the second line for us.

Whenever they sign a contract with the Red Wings and are assigned to the AHL. There is no regulation on them playing after they have gone through the draft process of the NHL.

He skates almost as fast as Helm, but has way better hands and a good shot. He is a north-south player who eventually will learn how to play this game and most likely will be Eaves 2.0. He has the potential to be more but has not had a good first year. I want to see him develop though.

Man, who the hell knows what he is going to do now... Nothing he is doing is making any sense to me, and I have always been a huge proponent of Holland. I trust him 100%, but this month is a complete mystery to me.

Even Pavel and Hank started on the bottom line. That was inevitable. I think this is more evidence that the brass are giving up on the people who are already there. This doesn't bode well for Mursak and Emmerton, which makes me hate this even more. I think next year is when we should have a minor youth movement. Letting Bert and Homer retire would have been a very good move next year, to allow the youngsters to play and to mitigate it with one big forward signing who is in the 27-33 year old range. Then we have at least two years to determine what we have there before the next wave comes, and comes hard. There could have been some trades then to clear room for the youngsters and bring in what would compliment them while keeping our strong identity in check with many developed players touting the line. Signing Bert might cause us to lose youth now, and then have a bigger falling off and require more from the next wave. Bad strategy.

Bert has been good this year, he is a role player and plays the role well. I never liked though how much of a role he is given. Who is to say his role doesn't diminish along with his skills? At this age he should be making less money and getting shorter terms.

You are so right there is more than hockey than production. Like defense, which he doesn't play. He actually is a much worse player than his offensive numbers let on. I am not a fan of Bertuzzi in any way shape or form. I don't mind him as a depth player... but when you already see us in a number crunch of how many people we can have on our team. I don't like him being the first one added. I want to say many have cited how he plays with Pavel and they expect more of him. Some have said it is unfair. I would like to go the opposite direction... Instead of saying how much more production you expect out of Bert when playing with Pavel, what about saying how much more production Pavel could get with a better finisher. Pavel is a player who makes people better by giving space on the ice and making strong passes. Bert is slow and not really a sniper. He can go to the net pretty hard, but slowly. When there is extra space on the ice, you need someone who can quickly move from gap to gap, or find the soft spot and rip a shot. Need I remind you how Brett and Pav played together??? I think Bert would play much better on a heavy line where the puck is cycled along the boards and players crash the net hard. I always like him and Cleary together and think Helm or abs would be a great third on that line. Fact is he is an anchor to the top two lines, and is part of the reason IMO that Zetter's production is lacking. Franzen and Bert are too much alike for us to have them both in the top six. He should be the guy last in line that Holland goes to and say, we will give you a one year for x dollars if you make the team. He shouldn't be taking a roster spot and contract right off the bat. This contract wouldn't bother me as much if it was the last signing of next year's off season and he was a bit cheaper. Not much, but like 200k would have made a bunch of difference in 2013-14. This money should be going to Helm and Abs, not Bert. Holland clearly wants to make him the new Homer. Holland is pissing me off this month.

I have seen many, many, many people confused by this the last few days. Made even worse by the confusion over adding Piche to the Quincey trade. I thought we should have a thread where people can ask for clarification on trading rules. If nothing else maybe everyone will read this so it doesn't have to be re-said. There is this thing called the 50 CONTRACT CAP!!! You are only allowed to have 50 players signed to professional contracts of any shape or form. The Wing were already at 50. THIS MEANS ANY DEAL WE MAKE MUST HAVE A PROFESSIONAL PLAYER MOVED IN ORDER TO GET UNDER THE CONTRACT CAP! Not just guys on the roster... This includes people like McCollum, MacDonald, Piche, Tatar, Brunnstrom, Aubry, etc. You can only have 50 people inked. This does not include people like Ouellet or Quine. These players are the property of the Wings but do not have a professional contract in place. There is a time period in which they are allowed to play in the developmental leagues as a semi-pro and not be under contract. A trade can NOT BE PROCESSED BY THE NHL IF IT WILL PUT THE TEAM OVER THIS CONTACT CAP. Piche was moved for no other reason than to allow the trade to go through...

The caps issue is very unlike me. I am just starting to lose it, because the amount of times I hear the same recycled and quite ignorant statements is making me a bit upset. Here is some useful info. Limits explained. The unofficial answer, from my memory so it might be wrong. Basically a week before free agency starts. Stuart could be traded after this season, but that would only work if the team thought they had a good chance to sign them. We know that stuart basically has four teams he is looking at. San Jose, LA, Anaheim, and Detroit. It is unlikely any of those three will trade for him. I actually thought about maybe a future consideration deal involving Stuart... then I remembered they don't do that anymore.

Okay the level of stupidity in this thread is reaching epic proportions. Quincey doesn't make us a shoe in, nor does a trade for a top six winger. It matters WHO YOU GET. Not just that you get someone. Moving Kindl and Tatar for a top six winger... okay WHO?!?!?! There is no one that is worth a price that high. Morrow? No. Semin? No. Nash? Wouldn't do it. Selanne? That would be over payment. Then a third liner?!?!?!? DO YOU REALIZE YOU ARE SUGGESTING MOVING NO LESS THAN THREE PEOPLE OFF OF THIS TEAM?!?!?! WHO WOULD YOU MOVE? KINDL, EMMERTON, MURSAK, CLEARY, HELM, ABS, MILLER?!?!?!?!? WHO?!?!?! DO YOU NOT GET THAT THERE ARE CHEMISTRY ISSUES?!?!?!?!?! OKAY HOW MANY TIMES DOES IT HAVE TO BE SAID BEFORE PEOPLE READ IT!!! WE ARE GOING TO LOSE VALUABLE PIECES DUE TO THIS OR ANY OTHER ADDITION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! we already are at 24 players, and that means someone has to go. This is a horrible trade because it affirms itself. IT DOES THIS BY US SAYING A PLAYER COULD END UP BEING WORTH MORE THAN WE THOUGHT, SO WE WILL OVERPAY TO GET THEM BACK AND IN THE PROCESS WE MIGHT UNDERVALUE SOMEONE ELSE AND LET THEM GO!!!!!!!! I FEEL LIKE I AM GOING MAD HERE SAYING THIS OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND GETTING ONLY SHORT SIDED RESPONSES THAT ALSO INCLUDE STATEMENTS THAT ARE JUST ABSURD! I don't get how we can talk about someone who slipped through our fingers becoming solid enough for us to spend a high pick on them, while also talking about moving young players like we are 100% sure they won't become more. IT IS A FALLACY AND A HYPOCRITICAL JOKE FOR US TO TALK THIS WAY!!!! Why can't anyone see this?!?!?!?!?! This kind of irrational behavior seems borderline psychotic. Just remind me of this thread if we waive Mursak, Kindl, or Emmerton and they end up being really effing good for someone else, that this trade in essence included giving them up. sigh end rant/

Two things about this... 13 games for Quincey were in the playoffs. Other thing... we eventually have to move a player... we have 24 players on the roster and we can only have 23 total... I am guessing Pavel is on IR now... otherwise we would be in violation of the limit. We have to expose someone to waivers or move a player off the roster... This is what makes me so very angry. This could cost us Kindl, or Mursak, or Emmerton, or whatever. What if they waive Commodore? I mean what then? the whole point was to get depth at d and we end up with an offensive d man instead of a defensive one? Shrugs. I fear we will regret this even more when it ends up that we lost another player on top of the first round pick...

uhhh no. The following year it would be the year where there would be a lotto... and there will not be another lockout. The league is running really smoothly.

I would have made those moves as well, but they didn't move them... they moved the pick. I am okay with this as well... I just know we could have gotten anything for this pick. Emmerton, Jurcco, McCollum... There is a ton of question marks. It is true he wasn't playing very well at the time... I think it is clear why... He had a great 13 game streak as a black ace where he was playing as a regular in the playoffs on a team that was competing for a cup. Then he gets put behind Meech and shipped down. Going into the preseason, all the chatter was that he was the 8th guy in line, and was likely to be traded or waived. That would screw with anyone's mindset. I don't blame him for faulting there, but if anyone thinks he was playing bad before that point they don't remember correctly. He wasn't traded, because no one is that dumb to trade for someone who is already marked to be released. You can get him for free if you just wait. I AM GOING TO SAY THIS ONE MORE TIME!!!! PICHE IS A THROW AWAY! There is this thing called the 50 CONTRACT CAP!!! You are only allowed to have 50 players signed to professional contracts of any shape or form. The Wing were already at 50. THIS MEANS ANY DEAL WE MAKE MUST HAVE A PROFESSIONAL PLAYER MOVED IN ORDER TO GET UNDER THE CONTRACT CAP! Teams picks are now based on regular season record and then re-sorted by it round by round of progressing through the playoffs. Example: 16 teams make the playoffs and 8 teams will lose in the first round... that means if the Wings lose in round one our draft pick would be... 14+8= pick number 22. They lose in the second round it would be 26. third round 28. lose in finals, 29th. Only way the pick is 30th is if they win the cup. Holland's rule, as he proposed it and it was ratified by the league. I think it is a good rule.

I am starting to think he is more reactionary of a general manager than I ever thought before. This strikes me as the same sort of move as resigning E. Overpaying because he is not willing to sit still and suffer for not adding. I am just happy we haven't lost a big prospect yet. Yet being the operable word... I still have a bad feeling we are going to move Tatar for someone who is on our team for three years and Tatar becomes a super star. I have nightmares. I would move Stuart for Pavelski... I really would.

I don't know, I am still trying to figure out how to block your avatar. I just keep thinking he is about to throw up.

I completely agree, but honestly you cannot re-contextualize this. The fact remains that we are overpaying for a player that would have still been with us if we didn't choose Meech over him. I can get over that... if it didn't mean we are going to do the exact same thing with Kindl now because of it. "Fool me once shame on you, fool me 8 times or more shame on me..." -Futurama. I hope that isn't our new motto... I just hope that we resign him and get 40-50 pts out of him at least three years... That is what I expect out of a first round pick traded. EDIT: that is out of an offensive defenseman added via trade.