TNBT

That's good to hear. I've been saying since draft day that we have a good prospect here, and I'm sick of hearing people trash him because we didn't draft that Fenchy... whatever his name is. Abdelkader is a solid all-round player now, and I can see him being an effective power forward for us in the future.

It seems that on these boards we have quite a few staunch Hudler supporters, and quite a few Filppula supporters. Now I'm sure that there are plenty of people who are fans of both of them (like myself), but in the interests of a little healthy competition, I thought I'd get people to rate them and suggest where they see each of them going in the future. As far as I'm concerned: HUDLER - I'm a big fan of this guy and have been since we drafted him. He just has some amazing puck skills, and for all of his doubters I think that he can and will make it at the NHL level. As far as his future with the team is concerned, I can see him making a solid right wing on the 2nd line. He's not too solid on faceoffs, so I'd be hesitant to play him too much at the center spot, even though that is his natural position. Also, given the left wing lock system, I would be hesitant to play him on the left side, given that he isn't a really good defensive player and he's pretty small. So I would see his future, with the Wings at least, as a right winger who could see some minutes at center, and definatley on a scoring line. He doesn't have the size, strength or game to play as a Grind Line or 4th line player. As long as he has a big center and/or left winger on his line, he will be fine. FILPPULA - Although I like both of these guys, Filppula is my favourite of the two. He, like Hudler, is a natural center, so I think I would play him there. He's a bit bigger and stronger than Hudler, and is a more solid defensive player, so I wouldn't hesitate to give him the center spot on a scoring line. With Datsyuk and Zetterberg around for the long haul (well, Zetterberg at least), I know it will be hard to get 1st line minutes on the Wings but I think Filppula could become a top line center.

Grigorenko has a solid defensive game..shortly before the accident he greatly improved it, and upon coming back he worked itup even more as Lada was using him in a checking role almost exclusively. He has actually developed into quite the all-around player. That's great to hear. As far as I knew, Grigorenko was basically an offense-only player. If he has become a solid two-way player then I'm happy to hear it.

McGrath is and always will be a natural scorer first, but I think he can become a decent defensive player, especially with a coach like Babcock. Red Wings Central says that he is responsible in his own end, so it would appear that he at least KNOWS what is going on on the defensive end. Now he just has to work on doing something about it. As for Hudler, I'm not expecting much from him as far as defense is concerned. I agree with your Datsyuk comparison. He will get a poke-check in there, but he will never be a positional defender or energy guy on the defensive end. I get the impression that every time he is in the defensive end, he is kind of waiting for the chance to get the puck and go back down the other end. I think that for him to have success, he will have to be paired with at least one good defensive player on his line. The idea of a Hudler - Filppula - Grigorenko line would be fun to watch in the offensive zone, but I would hate to see it when we don't have the puck. Filppula is showing the makings of a solid two-way center, but the defensive reviews I have read for both Hudler and Grigorenko were less than encouraging. If Grigorenko continues to improve as he has been since his accident and can add something that faintly resembles a defensive game, then that line wouldn't look as bad in the defensive zone.

I couldn't see Vancouver going after another forward. They have plenty of depth up front and they don't need any more. With Naslund, Bertuzzi, Morrison, Carter, Cooke, the Sedin Sisters and the rest of their forwards, there isn't really any need to go trading for more. If they are going to make a trade I would expect that it would be for a goalie. Then again, that would be the smart thing to do, and the Canucks re-signed Cloutier, so their management and the word "smart" don't appear to go together...

Jillson would be nice, but we don't really need any more puck-moving defensemen. I would rather get Peters, but as the article said, he's not likely to be waived.

Ahoy there fellow Wings fans. I've been reading up on the prospect defensemen that we have, and I must say that I'm pretty impressed. Even now that Kronwall has graduated to the big leagues, we still have some quality guys in the system. The main guys I've been looking at are Quincey, Blatak, Meech, Kolasau, Kindl, and our three late picks in the recent draft (May, Stamler and Mielonen). Can someone with a bit more knowledge on the matter can give me a bit of report on how those 8 guys are doing and an idea of how good they are likely to end up? I'm particularly interested in the first 5 guys, but May, Stamler and Mielonen are unknown quantities to me, so I thought I'd put their names in there too.

Yeah, if it doesn't count against the cap, then we should just sign all of our prospects (or at least the half-decent ones) and let them stay in Europe. Illitch has the money to do so, and he seems to care enough about the Wings to be willing to pay players who aren't on the Wings roster. The point about the AHL is interesting. It would appear that only players who play in the NHL have their contracts counted against the cap, so we could probably sign a bunch of prospects and leave them in Europe without it counting against our cap. The NHL tried to restrict the richer owners from using their extra money over the poorer ones, and the salary cap has done that. I guess this whole prospect thing could be somewhat of a loop-hole where Illitch and guys like him can still use their financial situation to advantage.

Yeah, what's the deal with the whole European prospect thing? I know that we now have to sign them within a certain time frame, but once we sign them can we leave them in Europe if they are not ready to play in the AHL or NHL yet? If we can, then why can't Illitch just sign all of our prospects and let them stay in Europe until they are ready, just like it would have been under the old rules?

I've been browsing Red Wings Central a bit more recently, and I got to thinking about our log-jam at the goalie position. Assuming everyone is healthy, we will have Chris Osgood and Manny Legace in Detroit. That means that we have Joey MacDonald, Jimmy Howard and Drew MacIntyre all relegated to the minors. Not to mention that we also have Stefan Liv waiting in Europe. They are all pretty young too: Howard: about 21 and a half MacDonald: about 25 and a half MacIntyre: about 22 and a half Liv: almost 25 So we have 4 quality prospect netminders with the oldest being roughly 25 and a half. What do we do with them? I think it's pretty much the consensus view that Howard is our future in net, and any of the other 3 would be a more than capable backup. I guess we could keep the other two in Grand Rapids in case we need them at any point, but it seems like a bit of a waste of talent to have two of them spend their entire careers in the minors. So the question then becomes who backs up Howard, and what do we do with the other two?

I know the new rules are designed more towards skill and speed, but there is still some physical element to it. It's not like they have turned the game into figure skating or anything like that.

I like what I read about Ericsson, but the main problem I see is that he is 21 years-old now but Red Wings Central says that he is AT LEAST 5 years away from panning out. So by the time he would really be ready to contribute with us he would be like 26 or 27. How could ANYONE take that long to develop? As for Seluyanov, he's very talented and I think if he comes over with the right attitude I think he could be a valuable contributor for us. He is only 23 so if we bring him over next year and let him develop, he could be in the rotation for us by the time he is 24 or 25. His main flaws seem to be his attitude and the fact that he is a risk-taker on the ice. Both of those traits can be "fixed" by working with a no-nonsense coach like Babcock who will make sure that he knows that if he wants to see minutes on the Wings he will have to step it up. It looks like both he and Ericsson may be late bloomers as far as their Wings careers are concerned, but if both of them can step up and perform as well for us as we all hope, then it would be a case of better late than never.

What kind of fool suggests waiving Maltby to sign a guy whose rights we still own when we can bring the guy over next season instead? Anyway, I've been wondering how a Zetterberg - Datsyuk - Grigorenko line would function. I know the Grigorenko is built like a tank, but he still relativley small in the whole scheme of things, and neither Zett's nor Pavel are very big. All 3 of them are exciting offensive talents, but could they be successful together given their small statures?

One of Liv or Macdonald has to be traded. Howard is not going to be the starter next season. He might not even be the backup. Both Liv and Macdonald would have to clear waivers to play in the AHL next season. Assume for argument Legace is let go as a free agent next summer and Osgood is resigned. Howard can play in Grand Rapids without having to clear waivers. So let's give him that spot. DET Starter: Osgood GR Starter: Howard Liv is better and younger than Macdonald, and Liv would have been in Detroit backing up Legace had the Wings not signed Joseph. Macdonald, on the other hand, just had surgery and is no guarantee to even return to his form from last season. So give the backup spot to Liv, and send Macdonald to GR. DET Starter: Osgood DET Backup: Liv GR Starter: Howard GR Backup: Macdonald (pending waivers) Howard would get a better chance to develop playing more games in Grand Rapids, while Liv has played plenty of years as a starter in a minor league and needs to play at a higher level of competition. Macintyre and Koopmans take the duties in Toledo. Either Macdonald gets traded or claimed on waivers, but he is the most likely goalie to go out of the guys listed. Yeah, I know that we COULD hang on to all of them and spread them between Detroit and Grand Rapids if we wanted to, but why waste that sort of talent by leaving them in the AHL? I know that Howard hasn't really had the chance to show what he can do at the pro level yet, but I'm just going on what we have seen in his career so far. The other 3 have all shown that they can be solid, quality goalies in the NHL, but Howard is the only one of the 4 who has really shown signs of being able to become an elite level goalie. That is why I have slotted him in as our future #1 guy. As for the other 3, we COULD keep them but I think that management would rather trade them while they're young to a team in need of a goalie rather than let them grow old in Grand Rapids and end up with nothing in return for them. I could see Howard and one other playing in Detroit, with maybe one of the other 2 starting in Grand Rapids. That leaves one guy who will be the odd man out. So assuming that Howard is our starter in the future, who which one of the others would you pick to back him up, and what would you do with the other two? If you would keep one in Grand Rapids, which one would you keep?

I'm a bit surprised too. He's getting up there in age and he's not too reliable given his injury history, but if he can stay healthy then he could produce some nice numbers still and give us a legitimate power forward. I doubt that he would be asking for much (if anything) over the minimum, so if we have the cap space available then I wouldn't be too upset if Holland decided to take a chance on him. At the same time, I don't care if we don't get him either.

I've been thinking for a little while now that Hudler kind of reminds me a bit of Datsyuk, in that he isn't really big, and he's not overly fast, but he has amazing puck-handling skills and offensive vision. Similarly, Filppula kind of reminds me of Zetterberg a bit, in that he is a solid offensive player as well, but is a better defensive player than Datsyuk/Hudler. So basically, Datsyuk/Hudler are the better offensive players, Zetterberg/Filppula are solid offensivley, but are the better two-way players. So with that in mind, a second set of EuroTwins may not be out of the question at all. Add Grigorenko into that mix and we have 5 guys who can all score and create. The only thing is that we are going to need some big guys to play alongside them or they are going to get killed.

Yeah, I know that Kindl is pretty big. I didn't mean "bigger defensemen" as in bigger than Kindl specifically, more a defensemen who would be considered to be on the bigger side in general. Like how Meech or Lebda would be considered to be a smaller defensemen, and guys like Fischer and Pronger would be considered to be bigger defensemen. So I was just saying that I would play a big defensemen with Kindl so that Kindl could play a more attacking style and join the rush more often, rather than having Kindl as the biggest blue-liner on the ice meaning that we need him to stay back more so that we don't end up in sh*t if we turn the puck over.

Thanks eva, that was the sort of thing I was looking for. Just wondering though, where do you see these guys ending up with the Wings? Pretty much all of the guys you listed as projections are classed as top 4 defensemen by TSN, but there is (obviously) only 4 top 4 spots available on any one team, and we are talking about 5 prospects here plus we also have Kronwall, Lebda and Fischer to think about as well. I was just trying to do some working out in my head, and for the future defensive pairings I came up with something like this: 1st pairing - Kronwall - Fischer/Quincey Kronwall is going to be awesome, provided he doesn't suffer some sort of horrific leg injury every time he steps on the ice. He can and does play physical, but I think it would be best to pair him with a bigger, more stay-at-home defensemen so that we can make full use of Kronwall's attacking skills. If Fischer pans out as we all hope he will, then I would suggest using him here. If not, then maybe Quincey will pass him and take his 1st pairing spot. 2nd pairing - Kindl - Fischer/Quincey As with Kronwall, Kindl can play physical and I expect that as he gets more experience and gets used to the American style of hockey his confidence will increase and we will see him get a bit more physical. However, he also has the same offensive talents that Kronwall has, so as with the 1st pairing, I would put him with a bigger defensemen so that Kindl is free to join the rush more often and can make use of his offensive abilities. Obviously whichever one of Fischer and Quincey that isn't in the 1st pairing will be in this pairing. 3rd pairing - Lebda - Blatak/May This was a bit harder to work out than the other pairings. If Lebda continues to improve like he has so far, it will be hard to keep him out of the team. It would be good to be able to pair him with a bigger and more physical defensemen, so I considered Kolasau, but he is too much of an unknown quantity at this point. He is still a project of sorts so until we start to see how he is going to end up, I couldn't put him in my lineup. I don't mind Meech, but I hate the idea of having two little defensemen on the ice at the same time, and I think of the two of them, Lebda will be better, so I kept him. That leaves me with Blatak, who has the size to make up for Lebda's smallness. We just have to hope that Babcock and the guys can beat a bit of toughness into him. As much as I like Blatak and his skills, if he wont play physical we wmay need to swap him with someone who will, so assuming May continues to develop his physical game as he and his body matures, he may get a chance here. Reserves - Kolasau, Meech, May/Blatak, Mielonen, Stamler. This is only based on the prospects we have now and how they are expected to turn out. Obviously trades, free-agent signings (both us signing other players and our players signing with other teams) and future draft picks will all have an effect on the future makeup of our defensive squad.

Yeah, I'm sure that Holland would have had Hudler picked as a Griffin this year, but I still think that if Hudler had worked his ass of in camp and during the pre-season, and played from the very beginning like he did late in the pre-season, then he would have had Babcock on his side and he would have made it very hard for Holland to send him down. My guess would be that Holland has seen his inconsistent game and attitude for a couple of years now, and going into camp he would have already decided that he needed another year in Grand Rapids. However, that could have changed had he shown consistency and proved that he was a new man in camp this year. I doubt that Holland doesn't think he has the skills to make it. I think the only reason Holland would have been planning on sending Hudler back would have been to make him improve his attitude and effort. If Hudler had shown during camp that he had already made those improvements, I don't see why Holland would have sent him back. Look at Lebda as an example. He wasn't anything special in Grand Rapids last year, and I get the impression that he was basically invited to camp to make up numbers. He wasn't expected by anyone to actually make the final cuts and get a roster spot. However, he busted his ass and showed Holland, Babcock and the rest of the staff that he was ready and they gave him a spot. I don't see any reason why Hudler wouldn't have been treated the same way if he had shown that he had improved enough on the areas that he needs to work on (consistency, effort, etc.)

I get what you are trying to say, but I honestly don't think this is the same situation. For some reason, Brown just seems to hate Milicic. That isn't the case here. Babcock has come out and challenged some of his young guys to get better and work on certain areas of their games, but he has always made sure to note that he recognizes their talent and that he thinks they can make it. Remember what he said about Hudler? Jiri started training camp pretty poorly, and then started to put the effort in later. Babcock said something like "why don't you play like you did at the end of camp all the time"? I think that's showing that he recognizes Hudler's talent and that he likes what he sees, but he wants him to prove that he can play hard and play well consistently before he brings him up into the team. If Babcock hated Hudler, he would have just been like "no, he's not good enough" but instead he has been trying to push him and has sort of taken him under his wing like a kind of pet project. I actually think Hudler and Babcock is quite the opposite of Milicic and Brown. Where Brown seems to just despise Milicic, Babcock seems to have really taken to Hudler more than any of the other young guys with the exception of maybe Filppula, and he seems to be intent on helping him achieve his full potential. That's just the way I see it.

There is no doubt that Hudler has improved as he has gotten older. There is also no doubt that he has the skills to be an NHL player. HOWEVER, the main knock against him has been that he is somewhat lazy in his attitude and approach to the game, and that is what he has to improve before he earns a spot on the team. Babcock saw this and pointed it out, mentioning how he has to play like the motivated Hudler that he saw at the end of camp all the time and not just sometimes. Babcock knows that Hudler has talent. He also knows that he has to improve his effort and attitude if he is going to be the best player he can be, and that improvement wont happen if he is given a roster spot now. Let me clarify: I want Hudler to make the team, but I want him to EARN his spot on the team. No player should be given a spot on the team when they haven't proven that they deserve it.

With the new rules in regards to signing prospects, I have a question. I know we have to sign our prospects within a certain time frame in order to keep their rights, but is there any limit to how many prospects we can sign? I'm hoping not, as Illitch has enough money for us to sign all of our prospects if we want to, and that is an advantage that the "poorer" owners from other teams wont be able to do, meaning that some of their prospects will become available again.

Exactly. Hudler DOES have tremendous potential. Hudler will need TIME to put it all together and get is mind right. That in a sense contradicts what you said in your first post. You said that he should have just been given a spot on the team now, and then in your next post you said that "he is only 21 years-old" and "give him time". I agree with your 2nd post. He is very talented, and he is young and needing time to establish himself and prove himself worthy of a roster spot. That is why we shouldn't just hand him a spot now. In your first post you basically said that if we just hand him a roster spot he will magically start producing and playing hard every game. Sorry, but that just isn't the case. Why would he all of a sudden recognize the "tremendous opportunity" he has with the Wings when he hasn't realized the tremendous opportunity he has with Grand Rapids? He has been blessed with a rediculous amount of talent and has had tremendous opportunities so far in his career. However, until he shows that he appreciates those opportunities (Grand Rapids) and plays hard every night, what makes you think that he will all of a sudden start playing hard given a different opportunity (the Wings)? As talented as he is, he has to earn his spot. If we just gave every young guy we have a roster spot for the main reason that they are young, then what incentive would they have to improve their games? So what incentive would Hudler have to improve his effort, faceoff skills and defensive game if we just go "here you go Jiri, have a roster spot over someone who has earned it"?

Filppula will definatley be a full-time NHL player. As for Hudler, he wont be if he continues to play the same inconsistent hockey that he has in the past. If he steps up to Coach Babcock's challenge and brings it every night and changes his attitude to the game, then I think he could make it. The main problem for Hudler though is that he's small, somewhat slow and he's not a natural defensive player at all, so he can't really be an effective player on the 3rd or 4th line, so if he is going to be a full-time player he has to step it up enough to be able to play on one of the top two lines, meaning that he will have to be pretty damn good.

I'd love to see both of them spend their careers as Wings, but if one had to go I would move Hudler. He's so talented that he should be a permenant member of the Wings team right now. I know we have had a policy of playing veterans recently, but if Hudler had really busted his ass since he has been here, he would have made it impossible for the Wings NOT to give him a spot in the team, much like what Lebda did in training camp this year. I'm just really unsure about his approach to the game. He has boatloads of talent, but the worst part is that he knows it. He doesn't really work much on defense, and he isn't a really accurate shooter. We don't need a guy who is there to showboat in the attacking zone and then wait for his team-mates to get the puck again. We also don't need someone who only shows up when he feels like it, and Mike Babcock knows this. That was one of my favourite things about this years camp. Babcock sees that Hudler has buckets of talent, but that he doesn't always give his all and needs to improve his effort, and he called him out on that. I may be wrong, but I can't remember any of his other coaches (since he has been in the US) calling him out on the need to show up EVERY night. Babcock believes in Hudler's talent and is going to give him a chance, but he knows that if he is going to be a useful player he will need to be committed and play hard every night. It's great to see Babcock calling him out on that and kind of issuing Hudler with the challenge of proving him wrong and earning his place on the team. Plenty of people here have been calling for Hudler to be put into the lineup straight away as part of a youth movement, but that would be the worst thing we could do for him. To just give him a spot on the team now for the sake of adding youth when he didn't earn it in camp would be a big mistake. He played well SOME of the time in camp but he was inconsistent as always and didn't show up all the time. If he is going to be a good player for us on the Wings team, he will have to put in consistent effort, and if he isn't forced to put in consistent effort in order to win his spot on the roster, what hope do we have of him putting in consistent effort with the Wings? Also, as for the size difference, it isn't a huge gap but it is big enough to be important. Two inches isn't a big deal when you're talking about a couple of guys around 6 foot, but when you're talking about one of the players being 5'9" then every inch counts.