joshy207

When you're scraping your way into the playoffs by 3 and 1 points over the last couple seasons, every game counts... and the only guys who get waived are the ones the organization has already tried to trade unsuccessfully, like Tootoo, Eaves, Samuelsson, Emmerton... all of whom went unclaimed. Cleary was injured and Samuelsson.. well, who really knows, he wasn't touching the ice no matter what. Kindl manages to play his way out of the lineup by the end of the playoffs, that's what he does. Bertuzzi and Andersson had been squeezed out, yes. But Franzen doesn't get scratched when he has one goal in 20 games. The methods could very well lead to not making the playoffs. The Wings aren't in a position of dominance. They're built around older forwards and are relatively inexperienced on defense. The postseason isn't merely a given, it's the goal now. Holland either needs to go for broke, sign and/or trade for some high-end players and make a serious Cup run or two, or fully embrace the youth movement and stop hanging onto guys like Cleary, Quincey, Gustavsson, etc. Instead, he waffles back and forth. The last three summers, he's said he'll be very active in free agency... he got his guys in 2013 (with mixed results), but he struck out horribly in 2012 and so far in 2014. He hasn't made a trade of significance in FOREVER. Yet he keeps signing middling players to contracts and keeping his young players buried in Grand Rapids. Has he not seen the benefits of using his younger players? They've thrived in their roles since the lockout. Not just been adequate, they've excelled. Yes, they'll make mistakes, but as long as they learn from them and don't repeat them over and over, that's progress. Holland's reasoning for not going young is that he "doesn't want to miss the playoffs for 5 years." Who thinks that'll actually happen? These kids are GOOD. They're not great, they're not Crosbys or Ovechkins or Lidstroms, but they're really solid and exciting. The more they play now, the better they're going to be in a couple years. But you can't get experience without getting experience. What I really want is for Holland to pick a path and stick to it 100%.

And in my opinion, the message that sends is "It's ok to underperform. We don't demand your very best every night. Your job is safe here, no matter what." Which, in my opinion, can be far more toxic than making changes. Either way, it's not smart...

The way I see it, Holland is reluctant to give the younger players a chance at all. He leaves that as the last possible resort in most cases. If the Wings hadn't gone through all the injuries in 2012/13, we would not have seen Tatar, Nyquist, or Andersson at all. It would have been Helm, Bertuzzi, and Samuelsson. Lashoff wasn't in the plans, but they had to call him up and use him a lot. The Wings didn't seem to have any plans on using DeKeyser when they signed him, he was set to be GR-bound after a few days, but an opening presented itself and he had practiced well. In 13/14, we would not have seen Sheahan, Jurco, or Glendening at all, Nyquist may have been buried in the minors all season, and Tatar, Andersson, DeKeyser, and Lashoff wouldn't have had their previous experience. This summer, Almquist is leaving for the KHL without having a chance to show whether he is or isn't capable of playing in the NHL. Callahan and Ferraro are out of waiver exemptions and have 1 and 4 NHL games, respectively, on their resumes. Lately, I think Holland's moves are the comfortable ones for him, not the "right" moves. I'll skip the misery of the 2012 off-season, but that wasn't his only shortcoming. He gave up a 2nd-round pick, a valued prospect, and a depth forward in exchange for Legwand, who turned out to be a rental... yes, they needed a center for a few games, but he ended up being a 4th-line winger as soon as those centers started to come back. was it worth both the pick and the prospect? That trade helped keep the playoff streak alive, so maybe it was worth it financially and for pride, but it gives them two less pieces with which to build. Re-signing Bertuzzi back when he did, in February 2012, was poorly timed IMO, but again, it's someone Holland was comfortable with. Keeping Cleary around last year, when he'd been awful for 2 seasons and the club had no roster or payroll space to do so, was a bad move... and now they're talking about ANOTHER contract? Keeping Quincey was a knee-jerk reaction to failing on every free agent they talked to. Yes, it "buys time" for either Holland to make another move (he won't) or for the prospect D to develop a little more, but unless there's a corresponding move where Kindl is shipped out of town, it's not a good deal. I don't think there will be an upswing this year. A healthy Datsyuk and Zetterberg should help, but if you look at it, last year, with both in the lineup earlier in the year, the Wings weren't in a playoff position. It's after Datsyuk went out that they started to make their push, and solidified that position with Zetterberg out also. They did that on the shoulders of a motivated Franzen (after someone pissed him off with a cheapshot) and the young guys that Holland didn't want in Detroit. Unless a move, or moves, are made later in the summer, we're looking at almost exactly the same roster that lost to Boston in 5 games, struggled to score, and couldn't handle the better opponent. There are no additions, only subtractions--Legwand, Bertuzzi, and possibly Alfredsson and Cleary. How is that inspiring at all? Sometimes different is all it takes. New voice, fresh blood, different look. Doing the same thing over and over while expecting different results? That's the definition of insanity.

There are/were more options than that.

Nobody on these forums wants that trade. What a lot of us DO want is for the manager to do something to actually improve the team. But, apparently, mediocrity and status-quo are perfectly acceptable in the bowels of the JLA.

Lemme guess, he "kicked some tires" but "didn't like the prices" and he "likes our team"? BARF.

No Abdelkader?

ALL OF THEM! Everything Holland says in trying to explain his job has become laughable. It makes him seem lost and out-of-touch, even if he really isn't. (I think he is.) The "kids/mans league", "hockey store", and not knowing why players aren't coming here really take the cake. One thing for which I've given Holland a lot of credit is that he trusts his people (assistants, scouts, etc). He doesn't seem to be one who just does what he wants and leaves the rest of the room shaking their heads. IMO that's part of being a successful leader. However, with the gradual exodus of front-office talent, there really isn't anyone to listen to anymore... which helps explain the lack of quality moves, excluding the drafting, of course...

I actually think the bar is higher with the jump in the cap (now and in the near future). I think Tatar will get about $1.25M/yr for 2 or 3 years. I consider Nyquist and Tatar to be about even, and both above Sheahan. I also think DeKeyser will top $2M/yr for 2 years... maybe as much as $2.75M.

I agree, time for Holland to go. But now that we've let Nill and Yzerman go to other organizations, we'll probably have to hire someone from outside... which may not be a bad thing.

Fire Holland.

Good deal, this is exactly what I kept plugging him in for on Capgeek.

Sporcle is great! So many fun quizzes... Here's a good one, Top 50 Inter-Lockout Scorers (so 2005-06 thru 2011-12 seasons) http://www.sporcle.com/games/LostInOz/nhl---top-50-red-wings-interlockout-scorers

I agree. Anaheim didn't overpay, Vancouver didn't give Kesler away.

He's like a gigolo with E.D. USELESS.

Cleary 2 will be worse than Slap Shot 2.

Maybe they'll trade Franzen for him...

Why do we need another center who doesn't score goals? Oh yeah, that's right, we don't.

This will be exactly like the Maltby situation... which was an embarrassing for the organization and the player. I don't think Cleary sees himself as anything but a viable NHLer and he'll be pissed if/when they try to send him down. Remember him bitching about being a healthy scratch?

On a side note, this very thing is happening in Detroit, less than a mile from where the new Arena will be built... the semi-pro Detroit City Football Club has built up a strong, loyal following of European-style fans, with the pregame parties, marching to the stadium, chants all game long, smoke bombs, etc. They drew over 3100 fans to their match on Friday. It's pretty awesome.

I'm not sure how I feel about Sheahan being on the list when he has already established himself as an NHLer. Jurco still can be sent down without waivers, but he'll probably (should) be on the roster next year. They did this for other teams too, like Mark Pysyk with Buffalo... they list him as a Sabres defenseman, then rank him as a prospect. IMO, someone who has already stuck with the big club is no longer a prospect. That said, I'm not bashing on the Wings prospects. The pool is deeper than it's been since the very early 90s and a lot of these guys look like they'll be good NHLers, either with Detroit or somewhere else.

I believe the old roster rule has been abolished, and this is why Mantha playing for GR is a possibility.

...or the horse's ass's mouth? The league should strike while the iron is hot.

Not sure what you're trying to say, but their situations were 100% different. DeKeyser, an undrafted free agent, left WMU and signed with the Red Wings after Western's season ended. Mantha, who was drafted and is already signed with Detroit, is still playing with his junior team, and under the agreement between the NHL and CHL, the Wings can't call him up to the AHL until his junior season is over.

Mantha's Val d'Or Foreurs just won their semifinal Game 7, so they're now in the QMJHL final. Mantha had no points, -1, 2 shots. His team was outshot 41-16, but won 3-2.