sibiriak

If I ever cripple somebody, even inadvertently, I hope that i'd be man enough and own up to it, and pay the appropriate damages to the victim. Especially if I could afford them, like Bertuzzi can. You do realize that Moore still haven't seen a dime from Bertuzzi, right?

Bert is UFA after this season, right? I know he is a good player, but I can't stand him for what he did to Moore, and how he behaved in the aftermath. I really hope that the Wings don't get him.

You called it!

Maybe they shouldn't even award the GWG if the game was not close, say if one team won by more than 3 goals.

As any other stat, the GWG is not perfect. But a player with a lot of GWGs stands better chance of having scored more important and game-breaking goals then a player with few GWGs.

So now that I've proven that Datsyuk does a lot of the little things that help the team in the playoffs, such as: takes and wins a lion's share of faceoffs, blocks shots, plays good D (leads in +/- and TkAways), you retreat to "he should score more" defense. But Shanahan and Zetterberg scored only 1 and 2 points more respectively than Datsyuk, with 1 more game played. So scoring-wise he has been on par with the "proven playoff performer" and "the future captain". To summarize, Datsyuk played better defense, and was no worse offensively than any other Wings forward (except Lang) in the last playoffs, and yet it was all his fault? Perhaps you should watch more Wings playoff video footage from the last year than that one episode where Dats allegedly bailed on the play. You may then actually notice the things that he does, and does well. EDIT - and since Datsyuk leads the team (and led it in the last playoffs) in takeaways, where do you suppose those takeaways come from? Perhaps at least some of them are the result of Datsyuk doing more then just standing there in center ice and having the opposition players deliver the puck to him on a silver platter? Perhaps a time or two he actually had to go to the boards, and into the corners, and actually take the puck away?

Refer to the above quiz for the answer to this. Datsyuk blocked more shots than Shanahan in the last year playoffs. Detroit as a team allows the least number of shots on goal. You can't block the shots that aren't there. Lilja leads the team in blocks and he is 99th in the league. (EDIT - and Hasek is last in the NHL in saves per game, at least among the goalies who played more than 15 games. Is he ducking the puck then?) Maltby is considered the prototypical defensive forward, and he blocked the same number of shots in the last playoffs and just 4 more than Datsyuk this season. And I would much rather have the puck after a clean faceoff win, than have to battle for it in the corner after a faceoff loss. The former allows for a good shot on goal more often than the latter. Winning faceoffs is even more important in the playoffs, and especially in uneven strength situations, which tend to decide the outcome of the game nowadays. Yzerman was so valuable, among other things, because he was one of the best faceoff men in the NHL. The stats suggest that Datsyuk is the Wings most valuable forward defensively, and has been in the last playoffs as well. EDIT-typos.

Let's do a little trivia. Don't look it up, just go by your memory and gut feeling. In the 2005-2006 playoffs, 1. Which forward had more hits? a. Datsyuk b. Zetterberg c. Yzerman d. Lang 2. Which forward blocked more shots? a. Datsyuk b. Zetterberg c. Maltby d. Shanahan 3. Which forward took the largest share of the team's faceoffs? a. Datsyuk b. Zetterberg c. Yzerman d. Draper 4. Which forward won the highest percentage of his faceoffs? a. Datsyuk b. Zetterberg c. Yzerman d. Draper 5. Which forward had more takeaways? a. Datsyuk b. Zetterberg c. Lang d. Draper e. Shanahan f. Maltby Correct answers: 1. d Lang had 5, Zett 2 Steve and Dats - 1, Shanahan led the team with 11. 2. a and c Dats and Maltby each blocked 6 shots. Shanahan blocked 1. 3. a Dats took 28.9% of the team's faceoffs followed by Zett with 20.3% 4. a Dats with 56%. Actually, Cleary had a higher win% (59%), but he only took a few faceoffs. Yzerman and Draper had 54% 5. a and c Yes, Messrs "lazy and sucks" and "playoff cancer" had 7 TkAways each. Draper and Maltby had 4, Zetterberg had 6 and Shanahan had 3. Now, do you still think that Shanahan did all the little things for the team, and Datsyuk just floated?

If you scroll up to one of my earlier posts, I cited the stats that show that Datsyuk does all of "those things". He is first or second among the Wings forwards in face-offs, shot blocking, take aways, and +/-. He does not fight or hit much, but, again, it is not his role. Neither does Zetterberg. So why is one "the cancer" and another "the cornerstone"?

Gorgie played pro hockey for longer than the Wings franchise was around. He couldn't possibly been a Wing for his entire career. In fact, I think he invented hockey.

Zetterberg has 11pts in 22 games in those 3 years. Do you think that the whole team's poor play may have had something to do with the low playoff scoring by all (except Lang) Wing's leading scorers?

Funny you should mention Shanahan. In the last three playoff years Shanahan has 10 pts in 22 GP vs Datsyuk's 9 pts in 21 GP. They both played on the same team with the same linemates... And with the same results. Which one has that extra playoff gear again? Could have fooled me. Like you said before, I too hope Datsyuk figures out how to play better in the playoffs. The way he is playing this year, I think he may have. His style may not be best suited for the playoffs, but I still do not believe that the reason for his playoff ineffectiveness is that he is a coward.

If you wish, we can look at the respective roster man for man, and Detroit would come out on top in just about every position. Montreal does have some good, skilled players, but their depth couldn't possibly be compared with Detroit's.

And the Wings are 22-11-5 vs non-divisional opponents. Only 6 points better. Not a significant difference. Nashville is probably due for a slump, they lost what, 2 in a row? Enjoy it while it lasts. EDIT - NSH is 20-11-3 out of Central division 43 pts in 34 GP. DET is 22-11-5 for 49 pts in 38 GP. NSH got 63.2% of possible points, DET got 64.5% If the Wings happen to lose their next non-division game, they will fall to 62.2% of all possible points. The two teams are too close to call. Everything will be decided in the remaining head-to-head games.

I'm looking at the Habs roster right now, and I can't imagine how one can argue that they are even close to the Wings in talent. G: Huet/Aebisher << Hasek/Osgood. D: A. Markov, Souray, Dandenault, Komosarek, Rivet, Niinimaa, Streit/Bouillon are no better,and probably inferior to Lidstrom, Schneider, D.Markov, Kronwall, Lebda, Chelios, Lilja C: S.Koivu, Bonk, Begin, Murray/Lapierre < Datsyk/Zetterberg, Draper, Lang, Filppula/Hudler W: Kovalev, Latendresse, Perezhogin, Ryder, Plekanec, M.Johnson, Downey, (Higgins-injured,Samsonov-waivers) are no better than Zetterberg/Datsyuk, Cleary, Williams, Maltby, Franzen, Holmstrom, Hudler/Filppula, (Samuellson, Kopecky-inj) Clear advantage to Detroit. Which shows in the Points column too.

What's an Ook Ook?

They say that the playoffs are different from the regular season. Could you specify why do you believe that is? I think that the playoffs are different because of three things, mostly: 1. Intensity and team discipline are heightened. Teams play more disciplined, particularly in their own end. 2. Teams get to see the same opponent for two weeks. They can adjust their gameplan, use custom designed defensive schemes. 3. Referees let more go in the playoffs. So what I basically said was that Datsyuk needs to adjust his play to these different playoff conditions. The coaches need to advise him on how better to use his strengths. Do you disagree? I also think that the Wings as a team underperformed in the last 3 playoffs (except maybe 2003-04).The style of play that made them successful is based on the team passing game. If your center has to try stickhandling through 2-3 D-men every time, because he has no passing options, suggests to me that his linemates play at a different speed of foot and thought. That is something for the coaches to address. Change lines, tell players what to do differently. Do you disagree with that? Finally, you may wish to read all of the dialogue I had with Hank in this thread, because you may then better understand what I was trying to say and what I was arguing against.

If your point is that Datsyuk hasn't scored goals in the last 3 playoffs, then you are correct. But I disagree with your analysis of why that was so. The reason is not a lack of heart or effort, it is because of a failure to adjust to looser officiating standards and tighter D, coupled with indifferent play by the whole team and coaching mistakes. All of which are easier to correct than a lack of character would have been.

It seems you are ambidexterous. Lucky bastard

I am very strongly right-handed, and yet I shoot left. The difference between hands is usually not as much in strength but in dexterity. So one would use his dominant hand for control, and the other one for just holding the stick straight. Power of a slapshot doesn't come from your hands anyway, it comes from your legs and the weight transfer during the swing. The hands are there to make sure that the puck goes where you want it to. You need more arm strength for the wristshot, but your bottom hand plays the role of a falcrum, it has to push at the stick. When your top hand has to pull on the end of the stick to generate power on the other end. It is easier to push against the weight than to pull it.

It seems to me that your perseptions are colored by that last playoff. Which is natural. But when you say that Datsyuk's only strength is his passing, that's not exactly true, is it? He is one of the best in the NHL in one-on-one play. But when the Oillers managed to double or tripleteam Datsyuk AND cover the passing lanes at the same time, that tells me that he didn't have enough support from his linemates. It is impossible to cover the other 2 forwards and 1 or 2 D-men joining the rush and doubleteam the puckcarrier. But if your linemates are too far behind, or are not moving and are not getting open,THEN it is easy for the defense to shut you down and outman you in all areas of the ice. As to Datsyuk willingness to go to the net, again, check where he scores his goals from. I'd be very much surprised if more than 10-20% of his goals came from farther away then the hashmarks. EDIT-clarity

You can't get CBC in most of the US. I'd rather have hockey on Vs than don't have it on any channel at all. Like it was prior to 1993. Did people forget that?

I would have to see a video of the play you are refering to. It could have been a ine change, or he could have chickened out, or something else altogether. I'll have to watch the video to tell. Very few people have the same pain tolerance as Yzerman. You are wrong about his "perimeter play" in the regular season and playoffs. Just watch where he scores most of his goals from. He is second on the team in blocks. If you critisize him for not blocking shots, then you should first critisize all other forwards save Maltby. And that includes the golden boy Z. To see a man's heart, one needs X-ray vision. Are you Superman? Seriously though, iti s a matter of opinion. Some players go out and bang bodies and run around. It is easy to see their "effort". Other players have different strengths. Datsyuk's strengths are: 1) the way he reads the play and sees the ice. How do you see an increase in that on TV? 2) passing. You need your linemates to offer themselves and to get open. If they don't, how do you "increase" that? And that was a problem in the past playoffs, in particular when Datsyuk didn't play with Zetterberg. 3) stickhandling and one-on-one play. This is more difficult to do in the playoffs. The refs let more go, the D gets to see you more and adjusts, the opposition coaches fine tune their defensive schemes to neutralize Datsyuk specifically. Pavel should do a better job of dealing with that. But it is not a matter of effort, but rather changing his style of play a little bit, using his linemates more, dump and chase once in a while, just to confuse the D. That's something the coaching staff should be helping him with. To be effective, Datsyuk must find a way to utilize his strengths in the playoffs. And the coaching staff should use him in a way that lets him play to his strength. That was the problemin the past. Not lack of effort or "heart".

Yes, Datsyuk is no power forward. But you ought to have seen more than 1 last year's playoff round (that he played injured BTW) to form a judgement about his playoff effort. He does not hit people or fight, and it would be stupid for him to do so, it's not his role. But he does sacrifice his body to make a play all the time. In fact, one of the common complaints about him on these very boards is that he often gets dumped on his ass while trying to stickhandle around people. He is the best faceoff man the Wings have right now. He is near the top of the league in takeaways. He is second among the Wings forwards in blocked shots with 23, trailing only Maltby. Or yeah, and he leads the team in scoring. As someone said before, he is no floater. And he plays with the same level of intensity in the playoffs, so the points will come. You should try to actually watch what Datsyuk does on the ice with your eyes unclouded with preconceptions, and then revisit your critical notes. See if you still believe all of what you wrote about him. EDIT - typo.

Dionne wore a visor? Gretzky parles Francois? I am shocked, shocked to learn that.