Learn2LuvIt

Lets see how Wiz feels after being with the Blue Jackets for the next six years...see if he still feels the same way about being a "good fit" for one of the most storied hockey franchises in history. See how life in a college football insane (only) town goes when no one in town could pick him out of a line-up. See how he feels when he tells locals that he plays for the Blue Jackets and they immediately ask "what is hockey??", tune out, and walk away mumbling something about the Buckeye's. See how he feels when he's consistently at his summer home in early April. Like it's been stated before, "nothing says hockey like the middle of Ohio" (not Ohio bashing, used to live there for many, many years...but it's the absolute truth about Columbus). Hope that few extra Mill on the contract goes a long way because he may just slowly slip away into non-existence from here on out. Maybe a change in perspective for him. Ask Mike Commodore (regarding statements he made about Bab's), things change real quck and burning the bridge of not just a coach, but an entire organziation...on top of that...his hometown team...THE Detroit Red Wings.... = not so smart. Thanks for the compliment Wiz and I hear soy sauce makes Crow taste a little better. May want to start acquiring that taste now.

As the day creeps along, I'm hoping more and more we pass on Jagr. Evertime I open my browser and start surfing hockey news, I brace myself for some very bad news that he's coming to the Wings. I'm hoping Kenny isn't in a panic over the top 4 Dman pool virtually being decimated with trades/rights to negotiate/etc..the past week and does something just to make headlines and keep our off-season moves on the relevant radar. Don't think he would, but would imagine Kenny is feeling some heat to do something....I hope it's not anything (stupid).

Any player in this NHL cap world deemed with the term "project" usually concedes that you have no better options. May work for the Islanders...but not the Red Wings. Our "projects" happen in Grand Rapids.

Okay, good point. But you state our bigger problem was scoring goals ....but yet you claim we would have had a better chance against San Jose by replacing a very good/elite goal scoring dman to add a physical presence? Confusion has set in??

Good point. But, if we assume that Wiz is an even swap for Raffi (which a lot of people would disagree with) then we basically have the same D core that lost to San Jose + 1 inexperienced/uproven player (insert Smith/Kindl/Janik). Now, if you believe Raffi is a superior Dman to Wiz, then we are actually weaker than we were last year + 1 inexperienced/uproven player. IMO-Wings look better at D with Raffi and Salei vs. Wiz and Smith/Kindl/Janik. Now, obviously if one of these young kids comes in and plays really, really well then that's a different equation. I'd be cautiously optimistic with seeing how your proposed D-Corps play until November. But if there is any questions, I'd be looking for a trade immediately. Big risk for Kenny when there may be no solid options to make us a better team at that point/before the trade deadline.

Well, I'm assuming by "go the distance" you mean winning a Stanley Cup. In that case - No. The above D-Corps will not get the job done. The way Stuey was invisible this year in the playoff's leaves me to believe only two of the above (#5 and #55) are without question. Wisniewski...would be new to the organization....who knows?? Smith...rookie...who knows. Eriscsson....we know...and it aint that good. Kindle...who knows...yes he's looked okay when he has played? IMO, the five players I question above are not looking at regular season, but how would you feel about going into a game 7 of the WCF with these guys on the ice? Not that impressive. To many unknowns/inexperience.

Holland's text to Lids right after he heard the news was probably something like "I owe you one.....big time". Lids always talks about being motivated to play another year. I wonder what Hollands told Lids about the Wings plans this off-season? It had to be something really positive...right?? Soemthing like, "Nick, we have money to spend this off season that we haven't had in a long while. We're going to be doing x,x,x,x,x, and x to make this team better and make deep run at the cup." Very curious as to what Hollands plan is now. I don't think mentoring B. Smith and Kindl would be a huge motivator for Nick....I'm thinking the off season plan is ambitious. Or...as my wife simply put it; Maybe it's not about the hockey. Lids and his wife have stated that they love living in the States, and leaving will be very hard. Maybe they aren't ready to make a move yet, and Lids doesn't want to sit around the house all day or start something just to keep him busy that isn't in his long term plans (moving back to Sweden).

That's it Sounds easy.

Oh, so are your talking about the Sidney Crosby hockey team? To be honest, I've never heard of that team. I thought we were talking about individual players and their individual performance and place in the history books. Well in that case, we should talk about the Joe Sakic hockey team, or the Chris Pronger hockey team, or the Martin St. Louis hockey team. They have as much Team hardware as Sid does and in in some cases more...(Pssst...they also have a Hart trophy too) ?..... Are these players "The Best" of any era in your book then?? jeez you just made my point for me. Too easy.

Wide margin? ?? Who had more points this season? AO won the Hart twice...Sid once. Wide margin? Look at how many times Wayne, Gordie, and Mario won the Hart...a ton of times each. AO has Sid beat on this. I take Cups, Olympic medals, WJ's, etc. out of my consideration on this because those are team accomplishments. I don't know who I think is better of the two (I think I'd actually take Dats over them both...that's just me though) but there are a lot of folks who think AO is a better player. Yes, yes they do.

Point is, if there is a debate about two seperate players that have played roughly in the same time period, roughly same amount of seasons, and there is an debate whether who is or has been better....then it's hard to transition that same player (Sid in your case) to on any All Time list... Did anyone question year after year if there was a better player than Gretzky-no. Mario-no. Howe-no. Sid-yes. To be an All Time great there should be no debate that he is or was at least the best player in the league for the majority of his career. Right now, a lot of folks believe AO has been better for the past 3 seasons. Secondly-How did his complete body of work look at the end of this season? Oh he was hurt. Yeah, a lot of players get hurt, careers end, never the same after an injury, yada yada...this all adds to the lore and realization of accomplishment and what the actual true greats went through to be in this very small group of players. Staying healthy is a part of hockey...not an excuse. Yes, if he stays healthy and does stays on pace for another 5-10 years....then you've got substance to having him on any All Time short list.

If your ALL TIME GREAT'S list is made up of 10+ players...than yes you may have an arguement. But I believe when most talk about "All Time" anything, most have a very short list (standard list...not in this order: Gretzky, Howe, Mario.....Done!) If you want to run this list into the 15+ or 20+ greatest of All Time players...you may have an arguement. But today he's not in the top 5 of All Time. Probably not even close. But ask yourself this....if you have to go 6+, 10+, 20+ deep into your "All Time" list ....are they really the best/most talented of ALL TIME??? No, not really. Really a great players, yes...is it fun to rank the really great players, yes...All Time- no. You say you think he's a ******, but in all honesty in think your a fan of his or else I'm mistaken and your defending him blindly and not realizing that a lot of people don't even think he's the best player in the league right now, or even the past few years (ever since AO has turned it on). If you have to argue the notion that you believe he is the better player than AO, and the "gap has been widing before his injury", then he's clearly not "ONE OF THE ALL TIME GREATS". You might want to look at the great history of this game and some of the truely "all time greats" players. Even Don Cherry who is a Sid slappy has been quoted as saying "he's not there yet, but by God when I retire he just might be". Further debating that he's better than AO blows up your point.

Actually they are. Did you thread this entire thread? See quote from CupforWings below: <<Crosby is more then just another talented player... The guy is a beast, is 23 years old, and was on pace for 120 or more points. I hate Crosby as much as the next guy, but he is one of the most talented players of all time. Hopefully he is able to recover and keep putting up monster points like he was this year.>> And... Actually I think the success of the NHL relies on the fans putting up money to support the league by going to games, buying merchandise, and watching games on TV. Sid is only one player who can only effect these factors in a limited way. I completely disagree that the future of the NHL lies in the hands of Sidney Crosby. Example: this years first round playoff's have brought record nielsen "shares"/tv auidence in many, many markets. Sid's wasn't even in the playoff's this year. Compltely disagree. Is it better with him, of course. Will it fail or "fall back into the shadows" without him, no. If I'm a Tampa Bay fan am I NOT going to support my team and go to games, buy jersey's, follow them on TV because Sid is not playing for the Pens? Ridiculous.

Ummm, To to give you a heads up, some folks...a good amount of folks....don't even think he's the best player in the league right now, and hasn't been better than AO the last few years (and I bet there are a few people here that may argue that Dats is a better player). Although that is very, very debatable, it's reality. Again, all I'm saying is that doing what he's done for 6 seasons is phenominal. However, way too early to start putting All Time label's on him (most talented of All Time, best player of All Time, etc...). Really great player now, will he keep it up for another 5-10 seasons...no one knows (and I mean no one!). It's ridiculous to start putting him in the conversatoin with Gretzky, Howe, Orr, The Rocket, Mario....these are the guys that are in the All Time conversation. Not a 23 year old - 6 season-in player. He'll start to get that recognition if he can keep his performance up for another 5+ years. But you'd be crazy to throw him in that conversation at this time. Really crazy. Again though, some people don't think he's the best player in the NHL right now! btw...the basis of this post is not to debate who is the best player right now. The basis is simply retorting the All Time label a previous poster claimed.

IMO...talented and really good players do it for 5+ years. I think consistency and longevity are the trademarks of truely great players. Furthermore, to be considered the most "talented player of all time", I believe your looking at guys that did "it" for 10+, 15+ seasons. I used to hear the same chatter about players being the "most talented", or could be "greatest of all time" and ultimately end up not even being close. LaFontaine, Lindros, Pavel Bure, D. Hatcher (touted as the best complete package looking size and skill for a D man of All Time...granted that was ESPN and it was pre-CBA), Forsberg, Yashin, Bertuzzi (back in the days with Vanc...used to be touted all the time that he may be the best Power Forward of all time), ....you get the point. None of these players would get on anyone's radar for making anyones "All Time" SHORT list (at least if your sane). Unless you consistently perform year-in year-out, and do this for 10, 15+ seasons....I don't think you'll ever be considered as the best, greatest, most talented, of all time. Let's see where Sid is in 5 seasons....then the conversation may be relevant. edit: spelling

This was said with sarcasm...sorry I should have noted. His agent will try and sell the fact that he's got the Wings winning pedigree, playoff experience, size, etc... However, I do believe GM's will also consdier this: the Wings not be able to make him work after a great deal of time (5+ years) was invested isn't very reassuring at all. It brings light to the fact that if Detroit puts all of their talent around him and still can't make him work on the 3rd pairing for X amount/market rate of dollars per year, neither should <<enter team name here>>. Cause your team I'll bet doesn't have half the D corps of the Wings, and therefore you have a pretty average NHL (at his very, very best) player out on an island without a Hall of Fame support system to hide just how really bad he is. Secondly, it means that Kenny and Jimmy D who are very, very well respected think there is a better deal/player/value available elsewhere (doesn't mean that any/your team could get such player, but just sends the message that an elite, legendary NHL front office thinks there is better available/value elsewhere). I remember days (years ago) when Lebda would get props from time-to-time...almost regularly in parts of seasons from certain folks in LGW fourms. Was he good then, and then just lost it one day? No, he was playing with some of the best D men in the league(Lids, Cheli, Kronner, Raffi, Stuey, etc...) who put him in the best possible position to be just average....and some nights they made him look decent, but he ultimately still failed . If a player can't be the the lowest denominator of success his NHL position(6th Dman) with that corps around him, chances are he won't be any better without.

Let's see how the hardball routine with the Wings is working out in early Sept. when he's "skating and keeping in shape...ready and waiting for the phone to ring". If you really look at it from a GM's point of view, his strongest selling point is that he came up in the Wings system, and made the Wings roster for two years.....so he can't be all that bad....right??? For E's sake, I hope the GM's don't call Toronto for a reference on how the Lebda deal is working out.

I'd go for Lindros, he's probably a better fit

Tried some of my wifes James Taylor music this morning on the way to work to calm my nerves. Shut it off after about 15 seconds. Made me want to crush him into the boards and scream "fire and rain my @$$ *****...eat it". Oh well, back to being a nervous wreck.

Incorrect. Concussions are caused by the brain shifting and as a result bruising of the brain. Sudden unnatural head stops/jars/shocks (due to hits to the body, car accidents, etc...) where the body's natural mechanism to adjust and counteract the main vertebrae/spine/neck are causes of concussions as well. In fact, earlier medicine (pre 1990's) used to term a lot of these such injuries as "whip lash". The medical community focused on treating the neck area of these "whip lash" cases due to the simptoms being severe headaches stemming from the lower/back lobe of the brain. Medicine has developed since that many these injuries were in fact concussions and treating the neck area was of little or no benefit (except if you wanted to wear the neck brace into a court room to win judgement in your favor). Furthermore, I have a relative who suffered a minor concussion from running into the boards (outdoor boards that had no glass and you could actually bend yourself over the top of the boards) at full speed while playing roller hockey. His head wasn't touched (one fractured knee cap and broken wrist), but the speed and jar of his body coming to such an abrupt halt due to his lower body impacting the boards at high velocity was the cause.

I hope they had some flu medicine in the "quiet room" while he was dealing with his concussion I mean flu.....

How long does this process usually take? Signed up this morning and haven't recieved my green light to post yet.

ha ha...no I should have used "they' instead of you®.

Actually, looking at the Sharks last series, I wouldn't call Niemi and Howard a wash. The edge in Niemi v Howard in these first series definitley goes to Howard. San Jose needs him to be much better to have a shot. Wings need Howard to be as good or better to have a shot. The other aspect of keeping goals out of our net is defense. Edge goes to the Wings. Not even close. Power Kill- for the Wings needs to be much better, especially considering our many, many two player vacations to the box in last years series. (btw...how much did that end up costing the Sharks$$ and was it line itemed as "Bettman Ref Assurance Payment" in their FY2010 financials??...just curious...anyway)... Forwards- I kind of have a slight change of angle from your opionion; yes, the Sharks may have more quality forwards, but collectively I believe some of our forwards are on a different planet when it comes to playing the playoff game and production (Dats, Z) and are as potent as the Sharks. The way our 4th line played the last series, I may even question your orginal statement of "more". I like the Wings chances and believe whatever the outcome, this will be a lot of fun.

Very interesting to see most the NHL media predictions going in the Sharks favor for this series. Even last year it was more of a split looking at the media. I would have given them last year, but this year is completley different. Wings in 7. Calling my shot even futher, game 7 will be won by 3 goals, 1 on an empty net.