bringback91

That's fine I guess, I just don't get the whole "regular season means nothing" arguement. It's just as important. Eh, only 20 games left then all these posts and everything else can take a backseat and let the hockey being played do the talking. The same could be said for over half the roster. Point was he contributed, even if it was only one gwg while playing on the fourth line.

Guerin....#15 Keith.....#17 or #77 Bert......I think he'll be keeping his same jersey (panthers) and #.

300 pts. in 341games isn't contributing? Stanley Cup rookie year? (he did have a game winning goal that playoff year) I find it hard to believe that anyone can honestly think he hasn't contributed.

That's just the thing, would you even like to be proved wrong about Dats this post season as it would greatly benifit the Wings chances? Or would you rather be correct so the player you dislike would be let go? That's fine, at least your in some sort of reality range, as opposed to others ready to dish out 7 mil for 6 years to z because of one post season series. I'm not saying you really, but there are some whom I beleive would rather see Datsyuk fail (even if it means the Wings lose) because they personally don't like him or his style, or to be proven "right" over him actually coming up and doing well. It's odd to me.

Your not honestly asking me that question are you? Actually starting with the 3rd post of the thread, the entire thing mentions just as much if not more about Lids and Z than Dats, and none of it has anything to do with reasons he won't be traded. Half of it's a Z and Lids slapfest. Just doing my part Why wasn't Lilja already back covering Hemsky, though? Is it Franzen's fault because he didn't make up for Lilja's glaring mistake? No, Lilja was back with Lids defending the 3 on 2. It's franzens fault cause he didn't pick up the open man closest to him and chased the puck carrier arcross the ice. Lilja couldn't cover both of them, so he took the guy closest to him, coming up the center of the ice.

Not in a situation where Franzen was the first forward back, and the closest to Hemsky. You can draw on as many chalk boards as you want, sometimes things just happen out there, like this play and the missed back check. Barnes- You take this way too personal. I'm arguing my point. I'm not giving anyone a hard time, except Datsyuk and maybe Holland. If you can't admit Datsyuk has a lot to prove and has underperformed in the past, then I don't see a point in continuing this debate. What others have or might not have done is irrelevant, although one thing is for certain; nobody in the lineup has underperformed to the extent Datsyuk has for the past few post seasons. Not even close. Most of them do not demand an elite salary either. Nah, nothing personal. Just funny how when facts of last playoffs are reviewed I'm an "apologist" who always comes up with excuses. That's a bit irritating I'll admit, but nothing I'm going to lose sleep over or anything. I thought I've already stated that numerous times in numerous threads. It's more of a "I have faith" hell perform, then me saying he has nothing to prove. I guess we'll just have to disagree on who's underperformed to what extent. Your right on the salary though, but most don't lead the team in points in consecutive seasons either. Just curious if Z was a UFA at seasons end, what would you offer him?

Really as a fan does it matter to you if they lose in the first round or the finals? To me it doesn't, an exit is an exit. It's not like they lost to some shmoes who got swept in the next round. Sure they consider it unsuccessful, every teams goal is to win the cup right? That is why they play the games. I'm not really talking about overall careers, I'm talking about last year. And Lids was crap also. No, not his fault they lost, but he didn't get his job done either, nor did Manny or most of the rest of them. For instance, everyone blames Lilja on the Hemsky goal, but look at the replay and how horribly out of position and chasing the guy with the puck Franzen was. Hemsky was Franzens back check, and he missed it. Yet Lilja gets the blame. You should really read around if some of what I post is the most ridiculous things your've read on here. But hey, I don't think anyone really seeks anyone elses seal of approval anyway, right?

Yeah, seems like the Z lovers seem to think one series makes a career. He's had ONE good series. Didn't do s*** the others. So if Dats has a good first series, does he suddenly become a playoff performer too? That's crap, it's Cup or bust for 90% of the posters around here. The Wings aren't the only team to get beat by the underdog, that's why they play the games. You don't think the team has improved this season over last, considering the loss of The Captian and Shanny? Right, for Datsyuk it's about delivering when it counts and showing he "deserves" his money, yet Lids gets a free pass cause he's "proven it before". That's a load of s*** too, that only applys to certain favored players. So, Lang deserves the same money as Dats, cause he scores a couple goals in the post season, (where they still get eliminated) and dozes his way through the regular season. That don't make much sense. I thought high salary demands come with high expectations? Big Bert? Oh, no not him, even though he sucks in the playoffs, he's big and tough so he deserves it. Right, so why give the people on a message board that like the guy on the team such a hard time? Your last paragraph seems like a problem you should take up with managment thorugh letters or petitions or something. I realize I have no bearing on what he gets paid or who he plays for, so I just root for him, instead of nit picking and beating the same dead horse that's already a bloody puddle of jello.

I guess, but the top seed only wins it all like 30% of the time. From 96-06 I'd say there right on schedule. No, expecting them to win every year isn't realistic at all. Sure it's a nice hope or wish, but to expect isn't very smart. No worries, I don't really get too upset over internet opinions. Some of them irritate me for sure, but nah, I'm cool. But it is foolish IMO to think that Dats will never produce in the playoffs. And nope, got no evidence to back up my claim, we'll just call it a gut feeling or something.

That's amazing, you should really go interview for the gm position. Your way more clever than Kenny. Hmmmmmm...... your best player who's a UFA at seasons end, you want to get the most for him so what would make more sense than another UFA who won't resign?!

I agree with him being no more than a depth player, it's the fact they have him on the 2nd line, in addition to not only being on the power play, but playing the point at that. They got guys on IR, and on the fourth line better than him. Should've never resigned him...

I'd just like them to get past the first round. Sure Dats hasn't had good playoff numbers, fine, but I don't think last year is really a fair indicator. Missing final 10 or so games and the first one of the playoffs, starting out with Drapes on wing, and really only 3 guys producing anything. It's all been said before. he still managed 3 points in 5 games, and if not for some great saves, and bad luck by him and some others (post himself, along with Lebda come to mind) he'd of had a few more points and it wouldn't have looked so bad. I understand the Stanley Cup or bust attitude with the Wings I guess, but that's just really not very realistic. I attribute that to a bit of a spoiled fan base, I guess the Wings are just victims of there own success. I read on Mlive where cheli said something along the lines of, people say the regular season doesn't matter, well when you get to that game 7, you sure as hell want it to be at home. Going down the stretch without the performance of all 3 on the top line, the Wings could easily be one of those teams fighting for every point just to make it to the playoffs. I think regular season performance plays a much larger role in contracts them some think or want to admit. If the wings win it all, I for one don't care if z gets 20 goals, and dats gets none, or the other way around. The games more than goals and assists. Either way, I honestly feel that some people will be pleasently surprised with Datsyuks performance in the P.O.'s this year, while some will never be satisfied.

Off topic.....how do you do multiple qoutes like that? (still a little slow on the in's and outs of things) Don't want to take anything away from Z. The guy is great, the hat trick game was was awesome for sure. My main issue is sometimes some people go a little over board. for example, the wrap around goal he scored a few games back, he actually lost the puck for a moment which changed the angle and greatly benifited him on the goal. Yet some posters were ready to nominate it for goal of the year. Just little things like that irritate me. The whole line has been absolutly on fire, especially Z. While I agree with your statement of not careing if all the goals come from one line, I see that as backfireing big time in the playoffs. Not due to the line tailing off as much as the other team being able to key on one line and Lang. Yeah, something's gotta give with the other 3 lines for anything to happen. That second line especially, that's not going to cut it IMO. To me the x-factor is Dom, without him I don't think it matters how many players they add.

Well, they got 3 other lines that are struggling, no? Time to put that theory to practice if you ask me. I'm not surprised Z's the only one anyone ever hears about. I'd perfer Dats stays "overrated" and under the radar heading into the playoffs. I'm thinking that will be a great benifit to his game. Yeah, you could've put any superstar you wanted in there "Alex O., Vinnie, ect..." The point was more for when it's suggested that Z is on that level, and his goals last post season were all highlight reel, that you see above players do regularly.

It couldn't get any worse, I say in reality to move Flip up there and Lang down, but that's not going to happen. Datsyuk has been playing wing succsessfully for over 30 games now, he's proven the ablility too. With Z at such a bargin, the Wings could in all reality "over pay" for Dats for 2 more years, and still sign a number of free agents whilst keeping both on the team. A win-win, no?

Actually I think Dats assisted on 2 or 3 of Z's goals, the big one being when Dats took the puck along the boards and worked through 2 defenders to send the puck to Z in the slot for an easy goal. Two of Z's other goals were rebound tap-in's. Right place at the right time for sure, but no Crosbyesque magic there. Anyway all that's (last years playoffs) been bashed into oblivion a million times. But to suggest that Z needs no one, is even more ridiculous. Besides the fact I'm sure Z doesn't share your opinion.

It's laughable that any succsess Dats has is attributed to Z around here. Yet Z doesn't owe Dats so much as a thanks. That's just silly. Personally I'd like to see them both remain with the Wings. But the Z man crushes vs. the less than favorable Dats posts are a bit silly also. Eh, said it before, I'm going to let Dat's play do the talking, seems to be doing alright and I'm sure it'll continue into the post season as well. Just one question, if Z's so God-like on skates, then why not put him with Cleary and Williams, and Lang with Dats and Homer? Then you got two lines, since Z can carry one by himself, and Dats has Lang and Homer to work with, since he needs other players help so desprately?

You must have missed those games, huh? I'm talking about Mr. board jack ass. Your blind hatred is so childish.

Does "untouchable" entail just from a Wings perspective, or is it that along with another teams willingness to trade for said player?

Maybe he's not really hurt, maybe they don't want him to be before the trade goes thorugh?

Looks like they both been in a couple this year. For me it's not so much the frequency as much as the willingness. As they both are. Like I said, I wouldn't really mind either, I just think Tkachuk is a bit tougher, meaner, and a better hitter. To me that's more important than goal scoring ablility, which Guerin has more of.

I'm not opposed to Guerin, I'd just rather have Keith. He's meaner and hits alot more and harder, and will drop gloves if need be. At least now this Doan crap can be put to rest....

I saw that too, I'm thinking what little crediblity was had by him is surley diminished now. Cujo to the Wings? Hasek would have to go the other way, or retire. If you need another hearty laugh NFM, there's the kronner rumor again in this article.

Exactly, Tkachuk is what this team needs. The overweight thing is stupid, and exactly like you say, based on the start of last season. He's big, strong, punishing, nasty, and can pop in some goals. He don't care about anything but winning a cup. Bert's a shell. Besides the fact he isn't even anywhere near game shape. Keith is almost too good of a fit for this team. Besides, I read that the Wings are all but out of the Goldenberg sweepstakes anyway.

hahahah, yeah harold.