bringback91

Lilja takes alot of unwarrented bashing on here for sure. He's been playing fine since the middle of last season, and was one of the best and most effective Dmen in the playoffs last year. sure his turn over lost a game i suppose, even though it went to o.t. and there was another game to be played after that, and he did score the Wings only goal. Besides the fact who was his partner that had the genius idea to not only leave him as the last man back, but continue on with the forwards and let him start the breakout whilst letting a forechecker rush in on him? No he's not a top paring Dman, never heard him claim that, and he sure don't get paid like it. I think it shows the level of how spoiled Wings fans are when you actually look at what they complain about.

Agreed on the injury part for sure, that's silly to put it mildly. Probably a safe bet though that it's nothing more than popping off at the mouth vs. actually want someone to be seriously injured, although with some you never really know..... As far as to join or not to join due to nothing more than the rivalry, it's not really that crazy to me. That's the only reason I've seen actually reported as to why he doesn't want to join the Wings. I think it's kinda cool. I don't like basically being "forced" to root for someone I don't care for because their on the Wings. And i like it when they don't want to come here. Others would sell their soul for a Cup, and some others like change for the sake of change. IMO the Wings stand as good of a shot right now as anyone with or without Forsberg on either side.

Why is it such a big deal that some people don't like the guy, even if for no other reason than he was an Av? Is it that "shocking" and hard to understand? It'd be foolish to say he wasn't/isn't a great player, but it's not exactly coming out of left field for a Wings fan to state opposition to him joining the Wings.

Nah, I think most people who were down on him wanted him to be 6-5 and from Moosejaw. Obviously any player that doesn't keep up on conditioning and aren't trying to continously improve whatever the weaker aspect of their game might be should be traded. Nah, to me he simply suffered from a scapegoat syndrome from basically two sub par post seasons (although he was still doing things well, there just not put on the score sheet, so most don't notice them) while excellent seasons were pushed aside. Cause after all this is "hockey town" and nothing matters to most Wings fans except goals and stanley cups. I've refrained from any "i told you so" and "where you at now" posts, especaily after this past post season and will continue to do so. I get enough enjoyment of watching him let his play do the talking for him, no matter if some fans still continue to undervalue what he brings all around to the team.

I know right? Don't worry about it, there is some on here that would post nothing at all if they weren't playing mod. Although sometimes thats better than when they really try to post something actually relevent to a conversation. I'd have to say the Wings stand as good of a chance as anyone at landing this guy if for nothing else reputation alone.

I think the All star game should be at the end of the year anyway, kinda like the pro bowl. Anyway, maybe Perry can ditch the visor since there's no chance of a fight or anything.

Meaning nothing bad at all. Simply have noticed in the past you seem well versed in the Pens and Crosby inparticular, just a bit surprised that with all the discussion of the all star game, marketing, what this means for the Pens and just the injury and length thereof that you'd have no opinion on it. As far as the injury I agree nothing good can come from the guy being out except a better chance at 2 points for the opponent of the Pens. While my opinion of him may slightly vary from some others, you'd be blind to not consider him among some of the best, and I think not only will the Pens be missing him on the ice, I believe there's a strong possiblity that if this is a 4 week or more type of thing that it will present a mental hurdle I don't think they can overcome, and will be out of the playoff picture by the time a return happens for Crosby. A shame really like them or not I still love to see every team and the best they have to offer. Although the game last night was pretty entertaining. *edit* I re-read my post and I can see where you'd think i was tying you in with that whole post, i assure you that wasn't the case though, that was directed toward some of the bickering and general whining that was going on earlier in the thread.

I find it funny so many are whining more than the kid on the ice. Dude got hurt, i mean really it's not career ending or anything, so i don't understand why so many are messing themselves over it. Who cares who doesn't like him and for what reason? It's not like the guy played over 10 years with the Wings and won a few cups and is near the top in some overall team records is it? hahahahah The soapbox treatment is so funny sometimes. It's fine to "piss and moan" and tear other players down when the herd is all going along with it, but oh boy, look out when someone picks on precious crosby. It's also funny that your demanded to state either your love and pledge of allegence to Crosby, or give a list of reasons how you can possibly not like him, only excepted when they are deemed valid by a panel of Siddy's supporters. As for me, nah don't really care one way or the other, but I sure don't think he's far and away the best in the world or the leauge for that matter and i sure as hell don't think that one player alone is going to make the leauge rise from the ashes and make it an instant success in backwoods arkansas either. Seriously I mean where does this guy get his cape cleaned? Get over it, no Sids not above injury and not everyone in the world must covet him like some do. No toby91?!? He's where i look to on here for all things Crosby.

I'm glad for Mac and i really hope he can make it back to the Wings. Everything I've read about him lately sounds as though he's really re-dedicated to hockey and he's really giving it his all. How can you not like that? If he don't make it so what, at least he's got the guts and the heart to try it, but I really hope he makes it not only back to the NHL but the Wings. I think all the soap box and critism coming from some like their s*** don't stink, and won't let up on the guy because of past personal issues is funny. Although I'm kinda glad for it, just a bit of extra incentive to make the comeback a reality. But damn, I sure hope some of you never follow the wrong path for whatever reason, cause if people judge you like some of you are judging Mac (on or off the ice) you'll never live it down, no matter how much you try to improve your life.

Eh, sammy plays like 3 more mins. a game, no i wouldn't be pissed if a min or two of those went to hudler, but it's not like sammys playing 19 and hudlers playing 6. Hudler was just one example though, I guess i'm trying to say that IMO sammy's a better choice up on the top two as far as trying to get some goals than drake, downey, ellis, kopy, franzen, maltby and draper, which would make him a top six guy. I will say after a slower than expected start Hudler has really been impressing me the past month, along with cleary, but it's not exactly like sammy's "stealing" ice time away from the other top six guys. Anyway I'm pretty happy with the team, think everyones pulling their weight and performing well enough but again i don't really see why sammy would face the wrath when he's only doing whats asked cause if he wasn't I'm sure he wouldn't be on the team. To each his own i suppose, guess i'm not the type of guy who's got to look high and low for something to complain about when the team i cheer for is doing so well. Like i said early critisims fine, but the overreacting bugs me, but then again it's not my site is it.

Wait a min., so Sammy's useless and Hudler isn't? Since sammy joined the team........ sammy: GP: 124 Pts: 79 Hudler: GP: 80 Pts: 25 And last years playoffs: sammy: GP: 18 Pts:11 Hudler: GP:6 Pts:2 And this year Hudler only has 5 more points while playing in 4 more games. Say what you will about ice time or lack there of but really it's irrelevent since the players don't directly have a say in that, sounds like you should be more upset with Babcock than Sammy. And for all the slack he takes for "bad" or "wasted" shots, for my money, nothings a bigger waste than a Lidstrom shot from the point on the PP. I hate it, and it's so predictible. Sure he's important and brings so much to the table, but look at his S% 3.6 with over 100 shots, and you can bet at least half on the PP. The games more than stats yes, but what's good for the goose is good for the gander no? Saying that Sammy brings nothing more than fruitless shots is uninformed at best.

Yeah I still read most of the site and threads on the regular, but outside of today rarely if ever post anymore. It just started to seem more annoying and alot less fun. One reason for that is exactly what you were talking about in your original post. There's nothing wrong with critism, like Osgod's post. No, if it's bothering you enough that you want to comment who's to stop you? But he of all people should recognize unwarrented bashing over critsim as I'm assuming one of his favorite players is Osgood. And even if your the type of person that has to totally rip on someone for whatever reason, okay state/slander your case, but it's when it's piled on and a daily occurance of not only sammy bashing but other worn out topics that make a great and informative site stale and unreadable. As far as lilja goes, that seires wasn't his fault, hell he was mins. away from becoming a hero, boy would those threads have been sweet to read all the flip floppers on them. Besides, where was everyone else, why was the last man bringing up the puck out of the zone? Why was the support breaking up ice before the zone was cleared? They teach you that crap in mites, but anyway.......

Yeah, I'm sick of it. Really though the true "bashers" are usually the same few people, and it's pretty stupid. Alot are the same people who make equally dumb remarks in a positive light about certain players weather it be simply a "fighter" or a grinder or a star player on the Wings or another team. Way too much credit for some, too much critisim on others. Really there's only one reason he's usually in the top six..... 1. That's where Babcock wants him. If you have a hard time with that, why hate on Sammy, he don't make up the lines. And personally I think he's one of the top six offensive forwards on the team, seems like simple math to me. I guess we'll all just overlook last years playoffs where the guy played great. Just funny to me though, all i ever used to read was, "regular season means nothing to Wings fans, what counts is the playoffs" but apperantly that only extends to certain players when it suits some peoples "arguements". On the whole it's silly, I think most of it is more of an attempt to come across as clever and an attempt to post a "zinger" more than actual hockey anaylsis about said player, in this case the new whipping boy Sammy. I guess some find it funny, but that to me seems like more of a reflection of the posters age or maturity as opposed to someone looking for some light hearted fun like some claim. And as most know once that ball gets rolling others join the flock and join in the "fun". The teams playing great right now, and I haven't found much to complain about watching this team outside the color commentary when Mickey's not doing the games. But I understand i guess, sometimes it's just never enough for some people.

Oh I know gord, I'm just saying dude's new, made some statements and it seemed like he got drug out to the town square by a couple and stoned. As i've told Harold, you had to know it was going to spark some off topic debate when you posted it. I have no problem with off topic stuff or whatever, I read whatever sometimes the best debates are off topic. My problem is people going off topic to complain about going off topic. When you know if dude starts a thread about what he posted, you'd have mod team #2 roasting him cause he didn't put it in here.... Anyway, that's not really even my point,if I even have one. I guess I'd rather have people like yourself and 134096 that have there opinions on players and can share them without beating around the bush and backhanded compliments, just to be able to claim "on the fence" status. Am I worried about only 2 goals for Dats, not at all. Just like I wouldn't be worried if it was Z. Dats is still in on a massive amout of Wings goals, weather or not he's on the scoresheet, and as a player yourself you know that impacting a game means more than just a scoresheet. I'd like to see them split, the consensus around here is Z doesn't need alot of help, so split em up. I like a dats cleary flip line. What could it hurt, Z can't do any worse apperently, and it's no where but up as far as Dats is concerend. I say go for it. BTW, sergei is on a 7 in 7 point streak. No, not lighting the leauge on fire by any means, but not dragging the BJ's down as some others were stating in a different thread. just felt I should point that out.

While a bit off topic, but I'm sure Gordo knew it would eventually end up here anyway, I don't see anything in 134096's post that is crazy ass, flipping out, apes***. massive off topic rant. Dude got tore to shreds for stating his opinions, which in for my money is way worse than being slightly off topic. It's not like he's in here talking about Klima's O.T. goal for Edmonton in the finals or something. I just figure if some on here just can's stand others "stupidity" and "off-topic" comments, and peoples statements on said players (actually positve ones too, not the same ole' sammy and lilja bashing) perhaps become a mod or make your own "sucka free" version of LGW. You and someothers aren't high and mighty, and I enjoy reading most posts from those who are amoungst eveyday posters such as yourself, but some of the "OH I JUST CAN'T TAKE THIS ANYMORE, wah-wah, how can you all be some dumb" crap does get old. Whatever it's not like I have'nt said all that before so do as you all like I guess.... IMO, Z greatly benifits from playing with Dats, no doubt about it. Even more so by the fact he's playing center, prefered position. Do I think Dats should play center, yeah. Split them up. People on here most certainly do worship, and over-sing Z's praises, and do under-appreciate what Dats brings to not only the team, but his line and Z inparticular. It's early, the guy's producing fine and Z is reaping the benifits of having someone with Dats skill who is willing to play out of position and is happy to be out of the spotlight and play second fiddle to him. To me it's all silly, seems to me there could be a few greater concerns to be argueing over, but hey, I'm just another Datsyuk apologist right? If you think it's bad how people react to critisim (real or percived), concerning hasek and Datsyuk, try saying something other than MVP about Lids or Z and see what that gets you, more that a "couple other people going apes***" I'm willing to bet.

On this roster Sammy's a top six guy. I'm willing to bet he just does what the coach asks of him, shoot. 9 times out of 10 what's the worst that will happen if he don't score? An offensive zone faceoff. Turn overs happen when you handle the puck alot, but I haven't really seen a goal yet this year directly linked to a give away by Sammy. Yep, I'm a fan of his, think the guy plays a decent game and delivers some points. But none of that has to do with the fact the guy's the new whipping boy and it's silly. I will say I find it a bit odd that Babcock waits til Hudler does start doing something to switch things up, but hey that's why he's a coach and I'm a fan.

It means I want him to stay as far away from the Wings as possible. BTW, I'm not seeing anyone from Detroits "2nd" line doing much better. Gordo's stance on Fedorov is WELL documented.

Why? Because I don't live in and root for Columbus means I can't watch the same games as them and have just as much as an informed opinion? All I'm saying is you felt the need to tell someone "Keep in mind it was only the 2nd game out of 8 where he's scored a point..." when all they said was "but Federov's still cruising." In which he can still skate with the best of them, no one said he was lighting up the scoresheet. All I said is there is more to hockey than a scoresheet, if you and some fans on HF disagree with that, I don't know what to tell ya.

Eh, I'll give him some congrats on his career, but I could never stand the guy. He's the definition of greed. Had obvious talent but seemed lazy to me and never did the things (like back checking) to change my mind. Big size and a bigger ego, it was him and his style of play that finally did him in. Seemed the type that could dish it out, but could never take it. Vladdy almost singlehandedly (if that's even a word) shut him down in 97. Although I don't care for him, I will miss rooting against him.

Yeah, their the authority on hockey over there. So according to them, only the stat sheet matters when it comes to playing good hockey? Glad I'm able to form my own opinions.

I guess he could be mad, but should'nt he be mad at only himself after all, Downey and Ellis (both less skilled with less upside than Grigs) beat him out also. From Kahn on MLIVE: "I've instructed (coach) Mike Babcock to put the 20 best players on the ice to give us the best chance to win, so I have no idea why somebody up here would be disappointed that he's here," Holland said. "There's other players who are here on a day-to-day basis. There's no guarantees about ice time or what line you're going to play on or whether you're going to be in the lineup." Babcock said a player can earn his way into the lineup with good practices. "If someone has a bad game and someone (else) is working their butt off, they're the first one in,"

Well difference between them and Grigs is they weren't given there word by the teams G.M. Before blaming the player everyone should keep an open mind and get the whole story. Which I'm amazed Kenny's stood idle while so much of a negitive overtone has been written about Grigs. I wonder if Yzerman would've gotten himself into this situation. From the Free Press today (well documented I don't know links or whatever) "Very few players that we have have an opportunity to go somewhere else to make 10, 15 times a bigger salary than they have here." "We've got two choices as we sit here today," Holland said. "We tell him to stay in Grand Rapids ; (he) probably goes back to Russia . Or we recall him for the arrangement that we made in the summertime, which we've done. I'd like to think we're an organization of our word. Now we'll take it day-to-day. "I gave a person my word that by the first of November, he was either going to be in Detroit or he was going to go back to Russia . We made a determination at this time, he's coming to Detroit . I can't tell you what tomorrow brings." Neither can coach Mike Babcock. Asked about Grigorenko after Tuesday's practice, Babcock said: "He's in a situation here that's straightforward. The bottom line is the best 20 guys get to play. We're in the winning business. If he's one of them, great. If he's not, not a problem." Does he look better than the last time he was in Detroit ? "He's probably in better shape," Babcock said. "We'll see. We'll just keep watching him." To #3, who's spot exactly did Grigs take and who's more deserving? Hartigan, he's already proved his NHL worth and it's nothing. I'm just having a hard time understanding why everyone thinks he's "taking" someones spot.

Hockey's more than just a stat sheet.

Yeah but in all fairness Hudler can't skate and he's been gifted a 2nd line spot.

Yeah those have been posted a few times. Not really seeing where it says he's a mediocre player. Really what's so horrible about that article? I'm seeing things like, take it a day at a time, no guarantees, it's all to be earned, skills are too enticing to let get away, process, evaluated everyday in practice. What's he making like 850,000? He's a rookie prospect, with talent. I see alot of articles written like that about a lot of rookies, this one just happened to have a G.M. that was apperntly desprate enough to agree to a contract that would force him to put him on the roster. Seems like a smart move by Grigs to me, he made no secret he came to play in the NHL. If he's not good enough, he'll go home, really no harm no foul. I'm betting in two weeks he'll be able to beat out one of Downey or Ellis, for a spot. If I'm wrong who cares, right?