Lou_Siffer

Wow he looks so young there....was that taken back in his midget league days?

Better watch out, they'll go after Lilja next. Im sure a team like Locomotiv is always looking to add a Pain Train.

Well in the case of talking toughness fighting-wise, there's no need to wait to see what happens on the ice. There's none of it, I dont think that case is even arguable. If you dont think its needed thats fine, but it is non-existant.

Exactly! If he's gonna get the kudos around here, why shouldnt he get the complaints aimed at him as well?

Kp - You must have misread what ive posted. I did NOT say the need for tough and physical players was from strictly an entertainment standpoint. I said its my belief you need it to win! The entertainment thing had to do with someone like Brian McGrattan. Would a guy like that help the team? I definitely think he would, but at the same time i dont believe you necessarily need a full fledged heavyweight scrapper to go all the way. But you do need the Asham types, absolutely.

It seems everyone else does too going by all the "way to go Kenny's" and the "Kenny's doing the right thing by not signing anybody" threads. What makes us any different than them? Other than the fact we happen to be complaining?

I agree Ian. While the Red Wings fans are definitely by far more passionate about the team, going by sheer amount of fan interest numbers-wise, its easily the Pistons. Most everybody seems to have at least some basic knowledge regarding the Pistons, because basketball is just more popular. But like you said, poll some random people on the street about the Wings, and you'll be lucky if 20% of them can name more than the 3 Wings. Hell in all likelihood, you'd find people still naming Yzerman and Fedorov!

Now that i think about it, he was also probably assessed with minors for too many men and for cross dressing too. This "guy" had quite an undiscliplined night!

So i guess he got a gross misconduct for "butt-ending"? (ive just reached a new low... haha ) Of course, theres the obvious Hooking penalty too!

LOL, that right there makes me laugh off the whole article. The NHL would have to PAY ESPN to get back on there!

Nice to see someone who feels the same. My attitude towards the WIngs 10 years ago and today are like night and day. I wouldve never believed for one second that we'd end up with a team with no fighters on it... I seen Chris Thorburn's name mentioned somewhere in this thread, and im telling ya, I really wish we'd had made an offer to Pittsburgh for him before Atlanta acquired him. If I had to pick one player who'd become the next Neil or Moen...it would be him. I have a feeling he's going to turn out to be a really good, valuable player. Nobody like that will ever be available! Why? Because their teams know how valuable they are. You have to find these guys BEFORE they reach that level, and turn them into something. Thats why you take chances with physical, tough players on your 4th line. Would you have wanted Moen back when he was on Chicago? I highly doubt it, nor would probably 95% of the other posters.

My problem with Norton is that he's one of the most boring, uncharasmatic fighters around. But in all fairness, everyone who's saying he lost badly in all his fights here im not sure what you were watching. I dont take issue with people ripping on him, but i do have a problem with facts being distorted in an effort to make a point.

Well, thats partly true. For example, I may chime in that i really want someone like McGrattan, but at the same time I wont be bitching and using the reasoning that we need someone like that to win. Ive never been one to say someone like him or Boogaard is a necessity. Thats strictly based on entertainment purposes. However, when i talk about wanting the Asham types and general team toughness, aside from the enjoyment reason I firmly believe its needed to make it all the way (one of the things of course). Its like the stuff Harold mentions in his sig, i think we have to have the McCartys, Fischers, Shanny's etc...that type of team toughness who's willing to battle. To see a team with basically no fighters on it is the complete opposite of what I want. For that reason, its damn near impossible for me to get behind the team come playoff time when I find the regular season games, for the most part, to be boring. I just want to be able to root for a team that i enjoy watching... i dont think theres anything wrong with that. Will it take 75 fights? Definitely no, (although i wouldnt be complaining )but christ, give me SOME toughness (fighting-wise)! Its not about having to see a fight in a game in order to like it, just to know the chance exists is enough to make everything else in the game more entertaining. Plus I love seeing guys step up and defend one another by scrapping, not shoving, its what i love the most. As for a cut and dry answer to whether i'd rather have a tough, gritty 75 fight team who loses in the playoffs vs a team with no fighters winning the cup? I wont skirt the question, honestly i'd have to take the first option. I'd rather go down with a team im in die hard support of, even if that means enduring the heartache, than to watch a team win and hardly be excited over it.

I agree Harold. Unfortunately it seems the general anti -fighting sentiment of most notably Holland has just brainwashed alot of people around here. Because if we had some fighters, you had better believe almost everyone here would love them...and the posts about having guys who fight not being necessary would be few and far between.

Oh, ...misunderstanding. I thought you were referring to fans bitching that they want him called up, not Norton. Nevermind!

That wont happen in a place that already has a few fighters.

You just made the implication that Babcock doesnt want one....so I pointed out he had one in Anaheim...and a big lug at that. So obviously...he's not against them.

Babcock had an enforcer in Anaheim.

*cue Lionel Ritchie* He's once.... twice..... three times a lady

So did they mail it in or what? Go up in smoke? What happened...did the franchise bomb? Was there any fallout after the dismantling of the team? Any clouds of controversy hanging over them? Was the Son of Sam in any way affiliated with this organization? So many questions...

Anyone ordering this? The UFC has been annoying me lately with very sub-par cards, but this one actually has more than 1 good matchup! Not sure if i'll be able to see it, hopefully i will. Anyways, heres what im predicting! Anderson Silva vs Nathan Marquardt - Marquardt via triangle choke Rd 2 Tito Ortiz vs Rashad Evans - Evans by split decision Sean Sherk vs Hermes Franca - Sherk by unanimous decision Minotauro Nogeira vs Heath Herring - Minotauro via armbar rd 1 Kenny Florian vs Alvin Robinson - Florian via choke rd 3 Evans vs Ortiz is really the one thats up in the air for me. On one hand, i could envision Rashad not being ready for the much stiffer competition and getting wasted, or on the other hand, i could see him winning! I do feel for sure though that if Rashad wins, it'll be by decision and probably be a ho-hum fight. The ground game should be neutralized by both, so i see Evans getting the decision by outboxing him. Marquardt ive felt for a while would be the one to beat Silva. Sherk vs Franca should be really good, and i expect Franca in particular to really be batterred afterwards from Sherk's ground n pound.

It was more than just those 4 though. He was also the beneficiary of the likes of Maltby, Draper, Holmstrom, and McCarty...key ingredients to a winning club as well. All the main components of a championship team were there when he took over. Thats the point some of us are making. In 2002, im sorry, but that Cup practically fell into his lap like 98 did. Acquiring Dominik Hasek came as a result of Buffalo not being able to afford Hasek any longer, and Detroit, having an "unlimited" payroll and not having to worry about draft picks, was able to pounce on it. It also helps when the rival hefty spender in Colorado already had Patrick Roy. Also, obviously Buffalo wouldnt want to deal him to the Rangers either. As pointed out already, Hull and Robitaille wanted to come here...and with money not being an issue anyway, inking them to deals is not some great GM feat. If it is, then you should be giving the same praise to Brian Burke for signing Scott Neidermayer and Selanne...who both wanted to come to Anaheim. But ive seen you criticize him many times so im feeling you wouldnt. I look at that as a reason i consider him the most overrated. Im just saying his accomplishments are not the great feats that it looks on paper. Over the course of the next 5 years is when we'll truly see if Holland is a great GM or not.

Jardine's not a wimp, but my problem is that he's coming off a 40 second loss to a total nobody in Houston Alexander. Any momentum he had created for his name is completely destroyed. For a main event thats about as weak as you could get i think. If they couldnt get Wanderlei Silva to agree to a September fight with Chuck(which is what the original plan was), again with all these fighters at your disposal and they go with Jardine? To me it just smells of them giving Chuck a relatively easy KO win (not "easy" literally, but you know what i mean) to set up him and Wanderlei in probably January or February. I know Shogun Rua is also fighting on the card, but the fact that i'd take the free UFC 75 card over the paying one tells me something's not right!

Unfortunately, Koschek vs St Pierre is the only fight on the card that im really interested in...even though i think St Pierre is a lock to sub him. Gonzaga really screwed things up by upsetting Cro Cop, i still just dont care about him at this point and cant get excited. Its always nice to see Couture, but im totally meh on that main event. The other 3 fights as usual, are nothing to write home about either...so im disappointed overall. With all these fighters they have at their disposal now, you'd think they could come out more overall great cards. Now as for some good news, UFC 75 will be free on Spike TV. This will feature Dan Henderson vs Rampage, Cro Cop vs Cheik Kongo, and another fight that im really interested to see..Michael Bisping vs Matt Hamil. Thats as good as you could possibly ask for for free! Very nice. However...UFC 76, which will be on ppv, has announced the main event of Chuck Liddell vs the one, the only....Dean of Mean Keith Jardine! Are they kidding?

He was the only scrapper i knew offhand that was a FA, Low's taken a step back a bit, but he'd still be more valuable than McCarty! No chance in hell! But im just throwing a name out there, since everyone is saying Mac and his diminished skills are worth the minimum. If you're going for fighting purposes...Low > McCarty...easily.