Icteria virens

he deserves in, esp. considering Brodeur will be in. He's played some great games last year when it counted most and overall has been very good for a very long period of time. He's not flashy and that's worked against him. If Osgood doesn't deserve in then neither does Brodeur.

you can't say teams are more likely to win a championship b/c there's fewer teams in the league and then say it counts just as much as any other as a way to save face, you can't have it both ways, if it was easier to win a championship back then those championships mustn't count as much as they were easier to obtain. If it was so easy to win where were the Hawks and Bruins all those years? Did you ever consider the fact that the league wasn't as watered down then? if you didn't fight every day to keep your job there was always some farm kid from Saskatchewan or Nova Scotia ready to take your place. Marino was a much better QB than Favre, early on Favre could scramble but that's his only advantage. I know you're getting at how he never won a super bowl but Favre's got as many as Trent Dilfer and Dilfer isn't better than Marino. Like I said before, that 96 team was stacked, the defense gave up 12 more points all year than the 85 Bears. They had a ton a free agents that were on that team only because Reggie White went there. Sorry, but Black NFL free agents in the 1970-90's didn't go to Green Bay before that. They mostly didn't even consider it. I mean, the Black Packers of that time literally had to go down to Milwaukee to get proper haircuts b/c nobody in GB knew how to cut their hair. They were a franchise in freefall since the early 70's. Desmond Howard was the SB31 MVP. FAvre is lucky to have gotten his one, not to mention next year, SB32 ranks still as one of the biggest choke jobs ever in SB history. Denver was what, 14 point dogs, the second biggest underdog all time and they won. where was brett then? Same place as he was against Phila in the Divisional and against the Giants at Lambeau in the cold - absent. Where was he in the PO's against St Louis? was that 5 or 6 playoff INT's he threw, in a SINGLE PLAYOFF GAME? I can't remember. Where was he in Dallas like 8 times? Nowhere to be found except chucking picks on the "artificially highly crowned middle of the Cowboys field" as John Madden and Favre apologist likes to call it. Bottom line: when the pressure's on - he can't deliver. Yeah, he's played long enough to get the stats, like I said, I knew all along he'd come back 2 years ago even they were 3-13 because he was so close to all those records his ego wouldn't let it happen otherwise. But he's got a tough time deciding if he'll come back to a 13-3 team? After the 3-13 season he was able to make his quickest decision b/c he knew he needed to get those records. And he says how he doesn't care about the records but yet after he threw 421 he went running around like a little 4 year old at Chucky Cheese's but the records "dont matter". I haven't seen him so excited since 1997.

you're the one who needs to relax, I even put a smiley face after that. yes you are ripping past teams, so I take it that the Red Wings SC's of the 30's, 40's and 50's don't count as much as the newer ones??????????? You NEVER did answer my question. see that's the problem with Favre, it's all about his stats and never about the team, when the pressure's on, he faulters every time. He had his chance last year and couldn't pull it out, he's done nothing in the playoffs since 1997.

how many times did they make the PO's after 99? blissfully mediocre? no way. How many times did they lose at Lambeau field? Something that never happened before. He only tied the record for INT's in a PO game at St Louis with 5, FIVE picks in one PO game! Big picks against Phila and NY Giants : when the pressure is on he's horrible. The only season I knew for sure he'd come back was last year, even though they sucked royally he was so close to all those records he just had to. I knew it. He can come back from a 3-13 team when there's records to be broken but doesn't want to come back to a 13-3 team. Bart Starr played without the benefit of wildcard games and a watered down league. If you really want to discredit his accomplishments then by that token you'd better email the GB Packers and let them know they're only 3 time Champions because they weren't called "Super Bowls" back then. In fact the first 2 weren't called SuperBowls either so I guess that leaves us with XXXI. heck, while you're at it email Mr. Illitch (I know you're connected )and let him know 1936, 1937, 1943, 1950, 1952, 1954, 1955 don't matter either as there were fewer teams in the league back then. I mean, what's the cutting off period? When does the good football or hockey start? When are the championships valid? Only when ESPN says so? Bart Starr has 5 Championships, one more than every other QB to ever play the game and 4 , FOUR more than Brett Favre. He thew 3 INTs in 10 PO games, 3 INT's out of 213 PO passing attempts. I seriously wonder where Favre would be without the benefit of the dink and dunk west coast offense he's run his whole career. Last season he "showcased" his talent with a balanced team around him? Well , it ended the same way as it did in Phila just a few years ago on a suppossed "mediocre at best" team = with a horribly thrown INT into triple coverage of an NFL OT PlayOff game where a 17 year veteran has no business making. Do you realise on that throw against the Giants there were 4 WR running routes on that play? Every one of them was open except the guy he attempted to throw it to. yeah, he makes poor passing decisions allright, at the absolute worst times possible -- not the measure of greatness in my book. This meme about how he gives them the best chance to win is BS, he had that chance last year and couldn't pull it out. He's done nothing in the PO's the last 10 years (3-7). The 96 Packers were loaded with talent. I credit Reggie White with giving the franchise instand credability after coming to GB (with the Black players in the league) Think about all the Black free agents they got: Sean Jones, Seth Joyner, Santana Dotson, Desmond Howard (SB MVP), Andre Rison, Eugen Robinson. If Reggie doesn't come, they don't either. The defense was absolutely loaded. They game up only 12 more points all season than the 85 Bears.

his streak is great, I simply can't say anything against him about that. That is to be admired and respected.

perhaps you didn't read this................... Yes, Favre played long enough to throw the most touchdown passes and collect the most wins by an NFL quarterback. But let's examine the second half of No. 4's career. The truth is, Favre did little over the past decade to earn the gushing praise heaped upon him by our fawning brethren in the media. After beating the San Francisco 49ers in the 1997 NFC Championship Game, Favre won just three of his last 10 playoff games. Eli Manning had more postseason wins in a 29-day span this past season than Favre had in his last decade with the Green Bay Packers. Yes, Favre won a Super Bowl -- 11 years ago! But as his career arc spiraled downward, the blind adulation only got worse. Favre's passer rating in his last 12 postseason games was a pedestrian 77.8. In his last five wild-card games, he went 2-3 with more interceptions (nine) than touchdown passes (seven). In his last three divisional playoff games, he went 1-2 with seven TDs and seven interceptions. That's a 3-5 record with 14 touchdown passes and 16 picks. In two of his last four postseason appearances, Favre threw two of the most unthinkable playoff interceptions in NFL history, both in overtime -- to Brian Dawkins of the Philadelphia Eagles in 2003 and to Corey Webster of the New York Giants in January. In fact, Favre is the only quarterback in NFL history to throw overtime interceptions in two playoff games. In his last nine playoff games, Favre threw 18 interceptions. Brett Favre's career playoff record was 12-10. Fellow Packer star quarterback Bart Starr, above, was 9-1. In the first 81 years of the Green Bay franchise, the most hallowed in all of pro football, the Packers were 13-0 at home in the postseason. But since 2002, the Packers have gone 2-3 in playoff games at Lambeau Field, with Favre losing to three not-quite Hall of Fame quarterbacks: Michael Vick, Daunte Culpepper and Manning. If Manning had a decade like that, he'd be run out of New York. If Philip Rivers kept chucking ridiculous overtime interceptions in the postseason, he would be branded a first-round bust. If Drew Brees came up short in three out of five home playoff games, he'd be mocked. But no matter how many dumb passes he threw and how many playoff games he lost, Favre remains immune to criticism. Favre isn't even the greatest quarterback in the history of the Packers. It's not even close. Bart Starr won five NFL championships -- four more than Favre -- and retired as the NFL's most accurate passer. Oh, you say Starr was surrounded by a Hall of Fame roster with a legendary coach. But Starr still is the NFL record holder with a 104.8 career playoff passer rating, nearly 20 points higher than Favre's. That wasn't Vince Lombardi or Ray Nitschke throwing those passes for Starr, whose career postseason passer rating, by the way, is 38 points higher than Johnny Unitas'. Favre's career playoff record was 12-10. Starr's was 9-1 -- without the benefit of wild-card games. Favre threw 28 interceptions in 22 playoff games. Starr threw three in 10. Think about that -- just three picks in 213 postseason attempts. But Bart Starr gets the Ringo Starr treatment -- underappreciated and overlooked. Favre gets put on a pedestal. Yes, he had a Pro Bowl season in 2007 with the youngest roster in the NFL. But his final moment on Lambeau Field was a wildly errant pass that turned into the NFC title for the Giants. Indeed, a decade after his last moments of glory, the football hype machine continues to paint Favre as a hallowed icon of Americana, a symbol of all that is right with sports, a Wild West gun-slinging good ol' boy. There's Brett on the farm! There's Brett with his family! There's Brett on the cover of Sports Illustrated! There's Brett throwing another overtime interception! Favre was among the best in the game, once upon a time. Those days are long gone. Only the idolatry remains. This is adapted from the best-selling book "The Paolantonio Report: The Most Overrated and Underrated Players, Teams, Coaches and Moments in NFL History" by Sal Paolantonio with Reuben Frank, which is available in local bookstores and at Amazon.com. he isn't even the best QB in Packers history....

god I just love the media this is the same thing that was offered to Dan Marino by the Dolphins at the end of his stay there as well. He wanted to stay on and the Fins wanted to move on, don't you remember he almost (ironically) became a Viqueen? this is NOT a bribe it a contract that he will remain a part of the organization with appearances at functions and other stuff. another and more important point, this isn't the first time they offered Favre this deal. The first was back in March *after* he retired, for the whateverteenth time , it was 10 years 10million, the only change is they've doubled it. I don't like the Packers management doing this as I hope he goes away and never comes back, I don't even want his jersey retired. He went on national television and badmouthed the GM and the organization as a whole. He said he doesn't want to cause a circus but here we are - again. There is no doubt he wants to play for our rivals. He's vindictive and spitefull and an egomaniac and I'm glad some Packer fans are finally finding out the real BF. No I wasn't spurned for an autograph or anything like that, just feel he's overrated and has gotten too big for his britches. Plus I've had to listen to Favre fans, not Packer fans, make every excuse in the book when he throws one of his patented INT's. If anything, the Packers management has been nothing but nice, saying he'd be welcomed back in the lockerroom. I hope they find he's not in condition, work him out for a long time alone and make him go through drills alone and then stick him on the practice squad. Brohm #2 and Flynn #3. The only thing he's earned is that he's under contract for 3 more years. How soon we forget, a few years ago when the Pack failed to sign Randy Moss that offseason there were rumours that his agent requested a trade b/c BF wanted RM at Lambeau. He's wanted out for a long time. He doesn't like the moves the team made letting 2 OL go, he was angry that they didn't interview his buddy Steve Mariucci for the coaching job 3 years ago. He's been angry for awhile but he's a player, not the GM.

Brett Fahhvvv raahhhh is overrated................................. he's not even the best QB to ever play for the Packers. ....... Yes, Favre played long enough to throw the most touchdown passes and collect the most wins by an NFL quarterback. But let's examine the second half of No. 4's career. The truth is, Favre did little over the past decade to earn the gushing praise heaped upon him by our fawning brethren in the media. After beating the San Francisco 49ers in the 1997 NFC Championship Game, Favre won just three of his last 10 playoff games. Eli Manning had more postseason wins in a 29-day span this past season than Favre had in his last decade with the Green Bay Packers. Yes, Favre won a Super Bowl -- 11 years ago! But as his career arc spiraled downward, the blind adulation only got worse. Favre's passer rating in his last 12 postseason games was a pedestrian 77.8. In his last five wild-card games, he went 2-3 with more interceptions (nine) than touchdown passes (seven). In his last three divisional playoff games, he went 1-2 with seven TDs and seven interceptions. That's a 3-5 record with 14 touchdown passes and 16 picks. In two of his last four postseason appearances, Favre threw two of the most unthinkable playoff interceptions in NFL history, both in overtime -- to Brian Dawkins of the Philadelphia Eagles in 2003 and to Corey Webster of the New York Giants in January. In fact, Favre is the only quarterback in NFL history to throw overtime interceptions in two playoff games. In his last nine playoff games, Favre threw 18 interceptions. Brett Favre's career playoff record was 12-10. Fellow Packer star quarterback Bart Starr, above, was 9-1. In the first 81 years of the Green Bay franchise, the most hallowed in all of pro football, the Packers were 13-0 at home in the postseason. But since 2002, the Packers have gone 2-3 in playoff games at Lambeau Field, with Favre losing to three not-quite Hall of Fame quarterbacks: Michael Vick, Daunte Culpepper and Manning. If Manning had a decade like that, he'd be run out of New York. If Philip Rivers kept chucking ridiculous overtime interceptions in the postseason, he would be branded a first-round bust. If Drew Brees came up short in three out of five home playoff games, he'd be mocked. But no matter how many dumb passes he threw and how many playoff games he lost, Favre remains immune to criticism. Favre isn't even the greatest quarterback in the history of the Packers. It's not even close. Bart Starr won five NFL championships -- four more than Favre -- and retired as the NFL's most accurate passer. Oh, you say Starr was surrounded by a Hall of Fame roster with a legendary coach. But Starr still is the NFL record holder with a 104.8 career playoff passer rating, nearly 20 points higher than Favre's. That wasn't Vince Lombardi or Ray Nitschke throwing those passes for Starr, whose career postseason passer rating, by the way, is 38 points higher than Johnny Unitas'. Favre's career playoff record was 12-10. Starr's was 9-1 -- without the benefit of wild-card games. Favre threw 28 interceptions in 22 playoff games. Starr threw three in 10. Think about that -- just three picks in 213 postseason attempts. But Bart Starr gets the Ringo Starr treatment -- underappreciated and overlooked. Favre gets put on a pedestal. Yes, he had a Pro Bowl season in 2007 with the youngest roster in the NFL. But his final moment on Lambeau Field was a wildly errant pass that turned into the NFC title for the Giants. Indeed, a decade after his last moments of glory, the football hype machine continues to paint Favre as a hallowed icon of Americana, a symbol of all that is right with sports, a Wild West gun-slinging good ol' boy. There's Brett on the farm! There's Brett with his family! There's Brett on the cover of Sports Illustrated! There's Brett throwing another overtime interception! Favre was among the best in the game, once upon a time. Those days are long gone. Only the idolatry remains. This is adapted from the best-selling book "The Paolantonio Report: The Most Overrated and Underrated Players, Teams, Coaches and Moments in NFL History" by Sal Paolantonio with Reuben Frank, which is available in local bookstores and at Amazon.com.

these are just the points you brought up, not other things.

why are we subsidising the Chicago economy? Let them play Phoenix at Wrigley field and see how it goes. How come we always 'suck' until they find a gimmick to sell tickets and then we're the Western Conference's cash cow. Play the game in Ann Arbor or Detroit and help out our economy.

I've never been a fan of the guy either, that makes 2 of us. I bet we're about the only ones in the state though. the sad thing is he knows he can pull this crap because everybody in the state is so Packer-crazy that they'll fall on a sword defending him no matter what. It's been that way through his whole career. No matter how many times he chucks the ball up into triple coverage people will always make excuses for him. This isn't LA or New York. GB is more like Lincoln, NE or Iowa City, IA. here's a time line of events. He's pulled this "will I , won't I retire" for the last 3-4 years. He's been a QB in the NFL for 17 years and by now knows what it entails to go through all the motions that come with it. This year especially he's had trouble deciding if he wants to come back to a 13-3 team that was a few points from going to the Super Bowl. Hard decision? Over the last 3-4 years during the offseason Packers management has made annual trips down to talk with him and convince him to come back the next year. They have also regularly called him to keep in touch. Maybe the Packers management didn't go down enough times to kiss his robe this year or just got sick of doing it. Either way he feels "unimportant" and "not needed". I'm not sure what happened to him as a boy but somebody didn't love him enough. He decides to retire and has a press conference on March 3rd saying he's "just got nothing left to give" and his heart isn't in it anymore. In late March, only about 3 weeks later, he calls up Packer management and says he's had a change of heart and wants to come back. Packers management say "OK" and charter a private jet to go to MS for the press conference. Sidenote: to all the conspiracy theorists out there about how Ted Thompson (GM) and the Packers Management etc. don't want him anymore and are trying to run him out of town please explain this. Just 2 days, yes 2 days, later he calls up the Packers and says he's changed his mind again and wants to stay retired. Mid-April the NFL Draft comes and the GB Packers are moving ahead and draft accordingly. OTA's and mini camps (which Favre, in the later stages of his carreer, never wanted to attend and had to be told to attend by coach McCarthy) are undertaken by current Packer players with new plays & formations put in and practised with Aaron Rodgers as QB. July 20th. Brett Favre calls up coach Mike McCarthy and says he's thinking of coming back. Mike McCarthy asks Brett if he's 100% committed to that and Brett Favre answers "No". This is in his own words BTW from part 1 of the Greta Van Sustren interview. Brett's brother and mother start talking to the media about him and how he wants to come back. Certain statements are leaked to friendly MS press and rumours start flying. This causes alot of panic and talk here in WI among his many long-time fans. The only 'response' by Brett to all this for days on end is a 3 word text message to a friendly reporter in MS "It's all rumour". Thanks #4 for all the help in clearing this all up (sarcasm) Don't the fans deserve more? His agent James "bus" Cook asks the Packers to unconditionaly release him. This would be the worst thing the Packers could do and refuse. The Packers ask Bus Cook for a list of teams he'd like to play for - Brett Favre and his agent have yet to supply the Packers with this list. His wife DeAnna emails Greta van Sustren of Fox News and Brett appears on her show over 3 nights July 14-16th. He admits he still doesn't know if he'll play or if he'll reapply for reinstatement. On the 3rd show (outtakes of things edited out of the first 2 programs) he admits to telling management that they should've signed Randy Moss, not let 2 OL go to other teams and that the Packers should've interviewed his personal friend Steve Mariucci for the head coaching position 2 years ago. Sounds to me like he thinks he's also the GM. The GB Packers file tampering charges against the Minnesota Vikings near the end of this week. There is said to have been not only phone calls between Brett Favre and Favre's friend Darren Bevell of Minn. but between Favre and head coach Brad Childress. There is also suppossedly conversation between Minn. Viking personnel and a staffer for the Packers. There is said to be valid evidence of tampering. In fact, some have suggested that the interest that Minn. has shown in Favre has prompted him to seriously think about playing again as they are thought to strongly desired his services. There is also a report of Brett Favre having dinner with the Tampa Bay Bucs GM, one of the teams he's been linked with. Brett Favre states to a Tampa area newspaper that he's not "too hot" on Tampa Bay as a team of destination as he "prefers a cool climate". Was this last comment made to seem like he doesn't want out of cold Green Bay? Did anybody see his face during the Chicago game this past season? Do you realise that during the first 30 games of his career where the temp was under 30 degrees he lost only a few of those games and over the last 30 games where the temp is below 30degrees he's 8-22? As of today he is yet to apply for reinstatement and doesn't know if he will. Well,,,,,,,, then what was all this "4" anyway? He is not bigger than the team, no player ever has been. We've had alot of great players wear the green and gold: Hutson, Hinkle, Canadeo, Blood McNally, Hubbard, Michalske, Herber, Starr, Ringo, Taylor, Davis, Thurston, Nitschke, Wood, Hornung, Gregg, Adderly, Jordon, Lofton, White.

actually several local media reports said that "about 100" fans protested. funny as heck,

I think it's rediculous of him to pull this. he's trying to put the Packers in a tough position. He's played this game for several years about retiring and now wants to play with another team. alot of people don't know this: after he retired in early march he called up the Packers and said he wanted to un-retire and come back, this was in late March, the Packers said OK and actually chartered a jet to go down to MS to announce this. 2 days later he called them back up and said he didn't want to come back, so everything got cancelled. The packers drafted 2 furture back up QB's in April and now this??? story here: http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/8335678?MSNHPHMA I think for people to hate on the packers and GM Ted Thompson for this is all wrong. He's been a real drama queen about all this and this is pretty gutless of him IMO. There are the usual conspiracy theories about TT and the Packers don't want him back but they clearly were ready to accept him back after he retired in early March only for him to change his mind --again. and for him to ask for a release-- that's the worst thing the Packers could do as they'd get no value for him in a trade, he'd be free to sign with any team (Minn and Chi need QB's) and some fans would twist it as the Packers fault. I've been a Packers fan my whole life but no player, and I mean no player, is bigger than the team, including Brett Lorenzo Favre. We've had alot of great HOF's play for us, we've won 12 Championships. If some fans want to blame the Packers organization on this I say: Don't hurt yourself falling off the bandwagon. The Green Bay Packers 12 Time World Champions 1929, 1930, 1931, 1936, 1939, 1944, 1961, 1962, 1965, 1966, 1967, 1996

somebody gets it, they really do!!!!

last years WCF's was the same thing, they let the clutch and grab back into the series, the likes of which we hadn't seen since the lockout, all for the benefit of Ana. It's all become about trying to grow a fanbase in a non-traditional market and the resulting marketing of merchandise.

but what happens next year if we're in the same situation and the team we play is better? the biased officiating could be the difference between cup and no cup. this series should've been 5 games at most.

so why not just call regular season games that way too???

I still don't understand why in the 'new' NHL fans of the highly skilled Red Wings team are so wanting/accepting of a different set of rules in the PO's and OT when a stricter enforement of the obstruction/clutching/grabbing would benefit their team?

yeah but if a player takes an obvious penalty in OT isn't he deciding to influence the outcome of the game by being stupid and taking a penalty he shouldn't? Just because it happened in OT and not the 3rd period shouldn't matter one bit. why do hockey fans have this mentality that there should be a different set of rules for different times in a hockey game?

sorry buddy but there's a big difference between fans on a msg. board and a so-called professional coach and they're Annointed One Captain bitching in a presser when Michelle will have the opportunity to address any issues with league officials between games just like Mike Babcock does.

if that's true it's because half our defensemen play extremely soft around our own cage. Including and most importantly the guy who was playing left defense when Talbot scored. Instead of being 6 feet from the cage trying to cut off a pass with his stick he should've been eating up a streaking Talbot for the stuff play but he's too soft for that.

nice edit, makes you seem more human or something............ tell me 'don't call names' and in the same sentence call me a troll hey pot : here's the kettle geesh!!! start slinging mud and then don't like the same dish served to you??? you whine like Crysby, are you a closet fan? PS: people who have different opinions than you aren't trolls or homers, they're posters with different opinions than you.

I agree with everything you said too bad his name isn't Datsyukstrom

well, I gots to, you won't let me in your cardboard box down by the river....

Nightfall=Devorsky, time for Nighty to change his Underroos