toby91_ca

Bettman and Fehr are re-joining negotiations today.....worries me big time.

Helene St. James ‏@HeleneStJames Source: "Not looking great" after latest talks tonight between owners, players. This doesn't sound good....but really, no one in the media really knows anything at this point

Nick Cotsonika ‏@cotsonika Hmm. Setting podium back up in media room.

Proposal presented by players, owners left, came back an hour later and now S. Fehr and B. Daley are out in the hall (not in meeting room) Nick Cotsonika ‏@cotsonika Daly and S. Fehr in hall. No, I don't know what it means. pic.twitter.com/utlByqOu

Ok, I was really only thinking about when the regular season was supposed to start....I couldn't care less about training camp.

Yes, I get that....but, we've only missed about 60 days of NHL regular season so far. If they start up tomorrow (I know, not possible, but for sake of illustration)...60 days from now would be early February. How does he get to not purchasing anything for the rest of the season?

Huh? I don't see how the math works there.

In terms of comments around games lost through to the end of the month....I'm not so sure. If they get traction, they can literally get to agreement in principle in a matter of a day or two. Drafting legal documentation will take longer, but that won't hold up getting training camps underway, etc. They'd probably have a 1 week camp and then games would start. Not impossible to have games starting sometime between the 15-20th. That said....getting way ahead of ourselves, things could go off the rails pretty quickly.... I think today will be very important as it will include input from whatever happend at the BOG meeting. Anyone listen to Hockey Central today? Nick certainly isn't tweeting this. Hard to believe the coaches would be doing this. They wouldn't be in any better of a position to know anything than most others. Not sure why anyone would reach out to the coaches and suggest they start getting ready either, doesn't make sense.

Conference call was scheduled long before yesterday's meetings were even scheduled. Bettman always does a post-governors meeting press conference. What I've heard is that the press conference may be cancelled so negotiations can continue.

Maybe too many people have been living in reality lately.

Any theories out there on what's going on? Some may feel that if this players and owners only meeting(s) (i.e. not Gary or Don) sparks enough traction to get a deal done, wouldn't that make Bettman and Daly look really, really bad. I read a headline this morning that Bettman is likely to get an earful at the governors' meeting today and the heat is on him. That said.....is this a carefully orchestrated move? Will Bettman come off looking really good because this was his creative idea? Either would be good for me, the other option is that this will go nowhere and we end up back to square one.

No, I think the general idea is that team employees/management shouldn't be in contact with the players....not owners. Don't think so. They're in the building, but not part of meetings.

Pierre LeBrun ‏@Real_ESPNLeBrun also told that Pens owner Ron Burkle made his presence felt in the meeting so far today. I think the players are receptive to him... This is what a lot of people were hanging on going into this....hoping that Burkle would somehow help.....player friendly and actual award winning labour negotiator.

No one knows much about this Burton guy, but I have read a few things that say no one is bashing the guy, he seems reputable and actually normally gets thing right. That said, there is nothing to back up his claims. I'll throw out the denial by Daly because that's expected. At the same time, I do not, for a second, think a deal is close.McKenzie did comment on the Burton reporting. He basically said he cannot find any information to suggest what he is reporting is accurate. Can't say he's wrong for sure though. My guess is that if Burton has a source that suggests agreement is imminent, not sure why McKenzie woudln't have access to just as credible sources. Never know really though.

The addition of Burkle in the room is promising, player friendly owner, tons of labour negotiation experience, etc. But, if Jacobs is still there, I'm not sure how far they are going to get. I've seen various reports about who is going to be there from the players side (Crosby and Toews, Crosby and Aucoin), but I think, based on recent reports, is that several players will travel to NYC and then the larger group will decide the 6 that attend the meeting. I think Crosby and Aucoin was a good start in terms of balance from the players side though (younger guy making a lot of money and older guy close to retirement, not making so much).

Union dues

That comment really only applies to a very small portion of total NHL players. The vast majority, beyond 90%, have very short careers and need to find another job after playing to support themselves. Edit: couple more thoughts on recent talks/developments: - I'm a bit angered by the NHLs response to the NHLPAs latest proposal. The NHLPA came back and gave a lot, got a lot closer to the NHLs offer. I wouldn't expect the owners to accept the offer, but they could have at least considered it and countered. What they have basically done it take it and say....no, we aren't budging. This is what they did 7 years ago when the players finally agreed to a 24% rollback...they said thank you....now what more will you give us. My worry is that they will simply sit there and wait for the players to give in because they will eventually. Then, 5, 6 or 7 years from now we'll be back at the same place with the owners wanting the players to give back more and the owners will be willing to sit without hockey knowing it's only a matter of time before the players give in again. - mediation - makes some sense, but far too late in the process if you ask me. Hopefully it's not just a PR move to show everyone that they are trying their best. The only glimmer of hope I take from it is that both sides fell like they could settle in the middle somewhere but don't want to admit to it (i.e. lose the negotiation). The mediator would allow them both to admit a tie and suggest they were pushed there by the mediator. It is a stretch, but a logical one too. I'm not optomistic at that it will go down that way though.

Unfair discussion to have in Detroit or Denver

What is it about the last CBA that benefited the players the most? I know the owners certainly thought they won big getting that one.

What confusion are you talking about? From all accounts that I can see...players are on the same page. Are you referring to the Krys Barch tweet? If so, not sure what that shows....I see it as him asking "what are you talking about?"

I have a really bad feeling now. All I have been hearing about is Fehr withholding information from Union, but I don't think that's true....not the problem. Information was left out of memo due to knowing it woudl be leaked, didn't want full details in there....that's all fine, but my issue is that Bettman is now trying to put a wedge between Fehr and the players. To me, this means talks aren't going well and this certainly isn't going to make them go any better.

If there is a deadline by which you need to get something done....most people will withhold any and all potential concessions at least until such deadline as they wait to see if the other side bends. I don't see how it would work any different than that. The lockout is really a negotiation approach as well. There really doesn't have to be a lockout, it should be a last reasort, but with Bettman, he has shown time and time again that it is his first resort, that's how he negotiates (unless you simply give him what he wants up front). That said, if the owner's didn't lock out the players, they really wouldn't have much leverage in negotiations, so it's really hard to argue against it too much. It looks like they may be planning on having discussions tomorrow as well, so I wouldn't be surprised if today's meeting results in the same thing as the last couple days (long meeting followed by no comments...commitment to meet the next day). I'm fine with that as it shows some progress must be occuring, but I'm getting impatient....is a deal getting done in the next several days or not.....need to know.

Have you ever been part of a negotiation? I'm sure both sides had no problem sitting down and meeting in June/July, but I can guarantee you that neither side would be willing to offer anything at all in terms of comprimises....why would they in June? Where's the pressure. I'm sorry, it's just the nature of the beast.

First scheduled game on NBC? I don't think the league places quite that much importance on it.

Meeting done, next meeting tomorrow. Hate that no details are released, but happy at the same time since that is probably a good thing.