toby91_ca

Eva, sometimes I agree with your "opinions", sometime I don't and I don't have a problem with that. But what I'm not sure you realize is that those are your "opinions", they are not "facts" - do you confuse these two things often? (I know you don't, I'm just saying). When you state that Messier should have never won either of his Hart trophies...well, the people actually voting for the award disagree with that "opinion" and for some unknown reason, they are selected as voters rather than you. Just another example, your statement that Harvey was great, but not as good as Nick, well, that really isn't a "fact" as I know of several people that rate him higher, Bourque as well. Personally, I have Orr at #1, then 2-4 I have Nick, Bourque and Harvey, not in necessarily in that order. My point is that several people will have Harvey and Bourque ahead of him and it's not that absurd of an opinion. At the end of the day, Nick's Norris trophies probably get him to #2 though in my mind.

Agreed. I'm guessing the "humanitarian circumstances" would be if someone is dying or something. The Board could always change this, but I don't see that ever happening, unless it's under new Board members and even then, unlikley. I'd put the probability of Lids having the waiting period waived at 0.00%, I don't think there will even be a discussion about it.

But what are these "things" you speak of? When someone really thinks a particular player is better than an other for some reason, but they just can't put their finger on it, it's usually because of "bias"....for whatever reason, you just "like" one player more, so you will trick yourself into thinking he's better. This is fact and it's impossible to avoid bias in this case. I'm not saying Datsyuk doesn't have more intangibles than Ovechkin, but if you can't really determine what it is, it's probably bias. The most common intangible I can think of is leadership. I don't see Datsyuk as some ultimate leader, but he certainly appears to have much more leadership capabilities than Ovechkin (but that could change over time).

I believe it is called "bias" or some may use the phrase "being a homer" I think you may misunderstand the term "intangible." What you have described for both are "tangible" traits. Just because something doesn't show up in "stats" doesn't mean it's intangible.

I quickly read the title of your thread as "are" rather than "were" which confused me even more.

I don't think most of Ovechkin's hits have anything to do with defense. Ovechkin's blocked shots were similar to Zetterberg last year I think, didn't check past years). To be fair though, Ovechkin is a winger, he defensive responsibilities are not supposed to be the same as a centre. Centres should always be better defensively just simply because of the position. I saw some people comment that they don't see Ovechkin in his own end digging pucks out of the corner, etc. That is to be expected though, his job in his end is to cover the defenseman at the point. Sometimes he doesn't do that all the time though as he tends to cherry pick quite a bit.

There is no question that Crosby is not as good defensively at this point than either Datysuk or Zetterberg, but there is also no question that he has improved that area of his game mostly every year. If you watch a lot of Pens games, I'm not sure how you could say that he doesn't back check....he actually does that very well. He's improved a lot in his own end as well, but that is probably the area he will be improving over the years as he gains experience (remember, he's almost 10 years younger than Datsyuk). Regarding the team being better defensively after he was hurt...haven't bothered checking, but assuming that is true, it makes perfect sense, they had no choice but to focus entirely on defense to try and win games. Regarding blocked shots, here are some stats for you: 2008-09 season: Crosby - 42 blocks, 77 games Datsyuk - 33 blocks, 81 games Zetterberg - 32 blocks, 77 games 2009-10 season: Crosby - 43 blocks, 81 games Datsyuk - 33 blocks, 80 games Zetterberg - 34 blocks, 74 games 2010-11 season: Crosby - 23 blocks, 41 games Datsyuk - 20 blocks, 56 games Zetterberg - 19 blocks, 80 games

So, Ray Shero (Pens GM) was on the Radio the other day the topic of Jagr came up and this is the general summary of Shero's comments on that: I translate that as Svboda (and probably Jagr as well) being fairly slimy negotiators, leading to the Pens withdrawing their offer, which quickly followed by Detroit doing that same, presummably for the same reason.

Thanks for the update pal. To be honest, I wasn't paying too close attention to the Jagr talk because I could care less whether he came to Detroit or not. I don't think he has much left to offer.

Actually, Dats doesn't play that much on the penalty kill and Ovechkin ALWAYS plays the last minute of a game when his team is UP a goal.....not for defense though, he's out there because there is an empty net, so he's looking to pick up an empty net goal or point.

This is exactly how the system is supposed to work and allow smaller markets to compete. The smaller markets are still going to have a very hard time financially, even with the payments they receive from other teams if they have to make minimum payroll of $48 million.

I can understand where he is coming from. I've never, ever seen Gartner as a star player....but at the end of his career, he's sitting at 6th all time in goals scored. With that stat, he's an automatic hall of famer, but if you ignore the goals (I know you can't), he doesn't have much at all. For a guy who was always the only skilled player on his team, he only led his team in scoring 3 seasons out of his total of 19. In those 3 leading seasons, he lead the second leading scorer on his team by a grand total of 13pts (or an average of 4pts per year).

He'll be 38, same for Datsyuk, who's a little bit older than Cleary. Franzen and Zetterberg will be 37 and 36 respectively and with their injury troubles, who knows if they'll still be playing. Either way, no one should expect any of these guys to still be playing at their current level.

Looks like a pretty damn old team.....so nothing new I guess

What does this say about Richards as a leader? Pierre McGuire used to gush and gush and gush over him and his leadership, but all I've been hearing is that Philly needed to get him out of that locker room.

I think this was pretty clearly a north south hit...nowhere even close to a blindside hit and I don't think many in the hockey world (players, coaches, analysts, etc.) are questioning that. For me, the only problem at all with the hit is that it was a little late.

If you are well aware of what a charge is, then you know there is nothing in the rule or definition of a charge that says anything about 3 strides, I'm not sure where you are getting that. For fun, let's assume there was some rule about 3 strides, could you point out where in the video Rome took 3 strides to make the hit? Maybe I'm thinking about a different hit.....the hit I saw has Rome skating backwards as Horton is carrying the puck through the middle of the ice in the neutral zone. Horton passes the puck and then Rome comes to a stop at the blue line to lay the hit on Horton. By my count, there were approximately ZERO strides. Regarding checking to make sure he was onside....I'm sorry, but I have to call BS on that. He passed the puck ahead to a player receiving it just before the blue line. That player was a few strides ahead of him....there is no possible way he could have ever gone offside, so if he is checking to make sure he stays onside, he doesn't belong in the game of hockey, let alone playing at the NHL level. Back to the actual suspension....4 games...wow, that surprised me. You have to believe that if it wasn't a star player from the Bruins that got hurt or if it was as star player from the Canucks making the hit, the suspension would have been less.

No way he'll get that much and he shouldn't. Far worse hits have gotten way less. It wasn't a blindside hit as defined by rule 48. If Horton wasn't hurt, I doubt he'd get anything, but because he was, he'll be suspended, but I doubt for very long, I'm guessing 1-2, perhaps 3 games (but I doubt it). The league will take into account the fact that he essentially already missed a game because of the game misconduct and the fact that he has a pretty clean record. The fact really going against him is Horton's injury though.

I'd say look how long Crosby "has been" out...he hasn't come back yet. But more importantly, how can you possibly assess whose concusion is more severe?

For the most part, I agree, but if Neely is in, I think it makes zero sense for Lindros not to be. In my opinion, Lindros was a much better player, dominated the league for a period time (Neely never came close to that) and actually accomplished more in the NHL than Neely (points, awards). Edit - the stats are actually pretty glaringly different. Lindros - 1.14ppg, 1.36 before signficant injuries (he's always had other injuries through his entire career) Neely - 0.96pg, 0.89 before signficant injury (his ppg actually improved afterward) Also, take into account that Neely played during a higher scoring era.

Yeah, I agree. That play really, really pissed me off, especially coming from Thomas. Thomas is the type of goalie that wonders way out of his crease, purposely looking for the slightest bit of contact to catch a call, which he has gotten several of during these playoffs....most of the time he's the guy initiating the contact. I have that in the back of mind my mind and then you see him steam roll Sedin and it's completely legit? I know by the rules it's okay, but it pisses me off. I should make it absolutely clear that I have no rooting interest in these Finals and I'm definately not a fan of the Sedins...I don't dislike them like some, I think they are great players, but I also think they dive too much. I've always been a guy (I'm a non-goalie by the way) that has defended goalies being untouchable when they are out of the crease since they can get injured if they are knocked over more easily due to their equipment. HOWEVER, I think it must go both ways, if they can't be hit, they can't be hitting.

I've seen several other examples of biting incidents in the NHL that have gone unpunished...why is this incident any different?

I'm really confused one two points: 1 - what does the Ilitch family have to do with the the sale/purchase of the Detroit Pistons? They have never owned the organization and are not prospective buyers. 2 - wasn't the sale of the Pistons finalized back in April?

So, I'd be okay with someone picking Bure over Lindros, I'd disagree, but I'd be okay with it as someone's opinion, but it would appear to me (maybe I'm wrong), that Bure was your first pick out of all that are eligible and you are suggsting that Lindros doesn't even deserve to be mentioned. I know I'm putting words in your mouth, but it looks like you are putting light years between these two guys. Help me understand the difference? Lindros has more points, a better ppg stat, a Hart trophy and a Pearson trophy. Bure has never been an MVP. If you ask me, Lindros dominated the game like no one else other than Gretzky and Lemieux during the years I have been watching (very early 80's). My opinion - not sure I'd put Lindros in because his career was shortened by injuries, but if Neeley is in there, not sure how you leave out Lindros (or Bure for that matter).

I live in Toronto, so I'd love to see the Wings back in the East, but other than specific reasons like that, why would the fans care if the team is in the East or the West? I know why Management would want the team in the East (specific business reasons), but what about the fans? Is it because you want to see more games against Toronto, Montreal, Boston and New York? I think part of the problem is going to be the level of interest in the West for games against the Wings. I think there is a good chance that moving the Wings to the East would hurt the league financially.