toby91_ca

I understand that, but if he wasn't in their top 3 for the most recent vote, not sure how he a front runner going into the season.

The League has nothing to do with it. If Lidstrom wasn't in the top 3 in voting last year, why is he in the front 3 going into this season, with the next guys a good stretch behind?

That is a pretty bold statement, which appears to be based soley on watching one player and what he has done.....have you watched other players as closely, behind the scenes, etc.? Kent Nilsson was pretty slick and I've always considered him to be the best stickhandler I've ever seen. Kovalev is pretty damn good too. I think something like this is pretty subjective and you could very well get some arguments for other players, I think it's really difficult to say that one player, without a doubt at all, is the best.

To be honest, that's a terrible comparison. Lidstrom has missed 29 games in his entire 18 year career, to this point. Zetterberg, on average, misses 10 games a year and that type of track record tends to get worse with age. I'm skeptical that he'll be able to keep it up until he's 40, but if injuries or ability force him out early, the cap hit goes away. The risk is that if he declines, but continues to play, at a cap hit of $6 million (which will still be significant in future years). I think that risk is fairly low, but there is certainly still a risk.

There are some good vids out there of Kovalev.

You know, I'm not sure I'd vote for Osgood, at least not initially, there are far too many other guys ahead of him, as others have stated. And honestly, I just don't see him as a Hall of Fame guy, I don't know why, but I've just never seen him as being one of the best goalies of his generation. I'm thinking a lot of the voters may feel the same way. Joseph has far more wins than Osgood and Joesph also has 51 shutouts and I don't think he's going to get in. I know Osgood has the cups, but I wonder how much value voters will place on those, considering the teams he was playing for (i.e. they would consider whether he had to carry a team to the cup or not).

The contracts definately don't come without risks, they are somewhat injury prone. However, I suspect they may retire before the contracts look to bad. Some may feel the cap will continue to rise, but that is a risky way of thinking as well. In the end, probably good risks to take.

I don't know man, I think they'll have a good year, but not as good as these numbers suggest. I think this adds up to about 319GF, not including 4th line and other dmen, so you gotta figure they'd chip in to at least get the total up to about 330. Based on the GAA, you are looking at about 170GA, for a GF/GA record of 330/170. With a GF/GA record like that, how can their W/L record not be better. They haven't scored that many goals since the early 90's...when they were also giving up 275+ GA.....just doesn't seem reasonable to me. The +160 for the team is likely impossible.

To be honest, you can't really answer that question about anyone unless you were actually part of the team.

Zarley Zalapski is cooler. I actually play hockey with a guy with the last name Battaglia....first name isn't Bates though, so not as effective.

I'm not one to go through player by player, but in thinking about Z and D: Datsyuk - between 25-30 goals and between 80-90pts. He has potential for around 35 goals and mid-90s for points, but I'm guessing he finishes in the 80s. Zetterberg - between 30-35 goals and between 70-80pts. Similar to Datsyuk, potential for about 10 more points.

Ahh, this one is easier for me to do. I don't generally have favourites on other teams, so hard to do currently, would be easier for guys I dislike. But over the years, there have been some guys elsewhere I have followed or liked. I'm limiting this to players I have actually watched play during their careers (i.e. I can't say Orr for example, I've seen him play on various video, but not during the time of his actual playing days). Bruins - Bourque Sabres - LaFontaine (didn't really follow Buffalo that much) Canadiens - Naslund (not sure why, never really liked anyone on that team, ever) Senators - Fisher (again, not a team I'm really interested in) Leafs - Gilmour Devils - Muller (I've always disliked the Devils, so this was tough) Isles - Bossy Rangers - Leetch Flyers - Lindros Penguins - Francis (I never liked Mario, or Jagr for that matter) Thrashers - Kozlov Hurricanes - Sanderson Panthers - Bure (I didn't really like the guy, but if there was a team I really never thought about, it was probably Florida) Lightning - Lecavalier Capitals - Gartner Flames - MacInnis Avalanche - Sakic Oilers - Messier Wild - Walz (don't really like him, but this is another team I never pay attention to and I don't like Gaborik) Canucks - Linden Blackhawks - Savard Blue Jackets - Fedorov Red Wings - Yzerman Predators - Johnson Blues - Turgeon Ducks - Kariya (not a big fan, but liked him a bit when he first came into the league) Stars - Modano Kings - Gretzky Coyotes - Doan Sharks - Falloon Hmmm, not as easy as I thought it would be.

Examples?

You know, people always say that Messier hung around too long, but really, he was still productive. Perhaps people felt that he wasn't productive as he should be for a guy of his stature, but come on, he scored 18 goals in each of his last 2 years in the league (as a 42 and 43 year old). If you can add a player who will get you 18 goals, I think most GMs would do it. Also, not sure I can name too many other 43 year olds that have scored 18 goals in a season. Howe is the only guy that really comes to mind.

That's right, as a 19 year old, he had 50 goals and 91pts. Interestingly enough, that very same year in that very same league, Darren McCarty, also 19 years old, had 55 goals and 127pts. Other notables from that same year: - Martin Gendron, 17 years old, 71 goals, 137pts - 30 career NHL games played - Robert Guillet, 19 years old, 56 goals, 118pts - never played in the NHL - Todd Simon, 19 years old, 53 goals, 146pts - 15 career NHL games played - Jarrett Reid, 18 years old, 53 goals, 93pts - never played in the NHL - Ralph Intranuovo, 17 years old, 50 goals, 113pts - 22 career NHL games played

Nah, just as crazy. I'd say they are equal in terms of craziness, but if I had a gun to my head and had to choose, I'd say Homer for the HOF is crazier.

I'm saddened that there are actually 5 people in existence on this site that have voted "yes" or "too close to call" edit: oh geez, 6 now.

I don't understand what you mean. If the arbitrator ruled in favour of Kovalchuk, I think it would make the CBA a joke.

What argument would there be for Guerin? His career best is less than 70pts I think. Even if he gets to 500 goals, which I think he has about a 0.1% chance of doing, I don't think he has a shot. Honestly, I'm not even sure if Guerin is going to be playing this season.

While those contracts have already been signed for awhile, the players in question have yet to play under those contracts. I agree and I think everyone agrees (including the league), that once the player starts getting paid under a contract, you can't go back and void it, but they are talking about contracts that are just starting for the 2010-11 season.

But did Forsberg ever really announce a retirement? I don't remember such an announcement. All I remember is hearing about him trying to play every year and having difficulty in doing so. On a related note, I was reading Forsberg's wiki page and there is a comment in there about him leading the league in ppg during the 2008 season. He played only 9 games...I mean, really, do you have to say he lead the league in ppg? That like someone scoring 3 pts in the first game of the season and saying he is on pace to shatter Gretzky's single season point record.

Maybe someone can enlighten me as I do not understand why Pronger's contract keeps getting referenced. Yes, it is front loaded and yes it brings him up to age 42 or 43, but how is it circumvention? Even if he retires at 38, the cap hit will remain until the end of the deal, nothing is being circumvented here. The only thing I can think of is that they are getting a lower cap hit for the next few years in exchange for a cap hit in the later years that they will likely have without a player (I suppose in the hopes that the cap goes up and it isn't as big of an impact).

No offense to the 23 people that actually voted for one of these guys, as this is my own personal opinion, but I think it would be a huge disrespect to the other guys whose numbers are hanging in the rafters for either of these guys to have the #24 retired here. I don't think there is any argument at all as to why either should be retired. The fact that Chelios wore it for 10 years after Probert left, kinda makes me think no one would even give it a single thought to retire it on Probert's behalf. I don't think they'd ever retire Fedorv's number, but have you seen anyone else wearing it in the last 6 or 7 years?

I think he's been mentioned, but what argument is there for him really? he does have over 1,000pts, but you can't start putting everyone in that hits that mark. He's way below a ppg on his career, he's only ever finished in the top 10 in scoring once (8th), his career best is 26 goals, he only had 276 goals on his career, no awards, etc., etc.

I have to ask....which names did you not recognize??