Zetts

Or he's trying to strengthen his bargaining position with other GMs who might otherwise try to take advantage of his position if they think the Wings have to sell now....

Disagree that he'd be gone on any other team. That's awfully fast to scrap a coach and especially one that was anticipated as Babcock's replacement for so many years. Having said that, I think if the Wings are doing poorly halfway through next year, then we're maybe starting to have a coaching conversation. I'm not sure who would replace him though...

We don't know the exact number yet, so it could be a bad hit I guess, but he's 100% worth over 4 million. When I see that, I'm not at all surprised.

I can already anticipate the meltdown if Cleary stays and Larkin goes down. Just to prepare people, if that happens, it is NOT because Cleary "took" Larkin's roster spot. It's because they didn't think Larkin was ready for a top 3 line role and didn't want him playing 10 minutes on the fourth line and/or being the 13/14 forward. Cleary, on the other hand, is perfectly-suited to that role. The two of them are not in competition for the same roster spot.

How did that translate into your comment that Dats would be out until December 2?

This is the premise of a talent pool. Since none of them are sure fire bets for the NHL, you build up a pool of what you think are the best bets (at each position) and hope that one turns into the real deal. You don't stop drafting at a position because you've got one or two guys that are maybe ok. And we hardly have an unreasonable number of (or a particularly good set of) goaltending prospects. Listen, I agree that we need to draft defence. I'm just saying that we need more than that as well. And our goaltending talent pool is not strong.

Assuming he's either gone or, even if he stays, appears unlikely to be an NHL goaltender. McCollum and everyone else in the world knows that he's not going to be Detroit's full-time backup. You need to build up a talent pool that can have an impact in the future. The Wings drafted another goalie because they have a limited pool that looks like it will make an impact in the future, once you get past Mrazek. Or, they just drafted him because he was the best talent available at the time, regardless of position. Either way, I'm fine with it.

Uh, we definitely do need a goalie. This isn't drafting for today, it's for several years down the road. And we lack organizational depth in net for the future.

6th in the league isn't middle of the pack.

Uh, which Red Wings team was that? Just how far back are we going here? We just won against the best team in the league, so it sounds like you're just looking for reasons to complain. A win like that isn't going to come easy.

He's actually never even hit 20 points.

If you're a Rogers customer it's temporarily free. But I'm with Bell and I'm pretty sure I don't get anything free. Is there a stream anywhere?

Well, it's confirmed with Rogers: the only way to watch the game is on a french TV station that I don't get (nor do I speak French). It's blacked out on Center Ice. At least it is in Ontario...maybe it's different for people in other areas.

Is the game seriously blacked out on Centre Ice because it's shown on TVA2 (a french language station that basically nobody gets)? I'm hoping I'm misinterpreting this, but there isn't even a GameCenter link up for the game on nhl.com.

It seems like the strong point made in this post has been lost in an argument of semantics. I don't care if you call Kronwall "elite" or "very good" or whatever else. Ignoring Cleary and (on and off) Franzen, all of our players over 31 are clearly pulling their weight.

Yes and Dan Cleary can play better hockey than anyone on this board too. Like Cleary, Ken Holland is a professional (in theory), who is paid a LOT of money to do his job. Pretty much anyone in a professional field is better at their job than someone who isn't part of that field. But that certainly doesn't mean that an outsider can't objectively see when someone is sucking at their job. Edit: To add to that, if the new standard for managing the Wings is, "well, he's better than fans on a message board," we're in a s**t-tonne of trouble.

I'm sure everyone here agrees. But Glendening will likely play because Babcock loves him and I wouldn't be surprised if Cleary "earns" his roster spot back. With Alfie signed (which is likely), only one of those two things has to happen to knock Jurco out of the lineup anyways.

Maybe he'll stay if we keep re-signing Cleary. It could be like the Kopecky/Hossa situation.

I have honestly never been more disappointed/unexcited for the Wings than this off-season.

Great, so we can lure players here by making them think that they can get paid and have a roster spot when they get old and slow. Faaaantastic.

Oh FFS Kenny, if it's that important, stick him in some BS front office job. We're all greatful for what he did in the past, but MOVE ON.

I'm just desperately trying to look for any glimmer of hope.

This is clearly ridiculous, but I don't know if Holland's quote has been metioned...this at least takes some of the sting off: http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2014/07/detroit_red_wings_sign_forward_2.html Regardless, this is easily the worst off-season in the Wings have had in recent memory.

I know he's had injury issues, but you don't trade a player like Helm unless you're getting a really, really good return.