Kp-Wings

Paul Kruse had 1074 PIM in only 423 NHL games. I consider that good numbers for him. Plus, the guy was a great fighter for only being 6'0 even. To say you can't win with an enforcer is stupid, for those who have said it. As mentioned, Tampa Bay had both Roy and Dingman on their 2004 Cup team, and both of them were roster regulars. Neither of them did anything else but fight, and in the long run it didn't hurt Tampa, since they still won the Cup that year anyways. There are plenty of teams that manage to win Stanley Cup's with full time enforcers. Here's a list of teams who have won the Cup with numerous enforcers on their rosters, who did play full time during the playoffs. *Note that I am including the guys who usually play that role. Some guys, like Adam Graves for New York, I left off the list because they were scorers for the most part* Pittsburgh Penguins: 1991-1992 Bob Errey Troy Loney Gordie Roberts Ulf Samulesson Grant Jennings Montreal Canadiens: 1992-1993 Kevin Haller Lyle Odelein Todd Ewen Mario Roberge New York Rangers: 1993-1994 Jeff Beukeboom Jay Wells Nick Kypreos Colorado: 1995-1996 Chris Simon Warren Rychel New Jersey: 2002-2003 Turner Stevenson Colin White Jim McKenzie Some of these guys did put up decent scoring numbers at times in their careers, but not at when they were on the teams listed above. Most of these guys were on these teams for one reason: to fight people, not to score points. That I consider an enforcer. Having an enforcer is very important to a team's success. Sure, guys don't fight a whole lot in the playoffs, but it's not totally out of the question. Plus, enforcers are good for protecting players in the regular season, which is when their roles are most important. If the Wings had an enforcer, perhaps Brad Stuart wouldn't have found it upon himself to crosscheck Zetterberg from behind, seriously injuring his back. It's all speculation, yes, but it's not a total shot in the dark. Enforcers do prevent that kind of stuff from happening. Not all the time, but most of the time it does help matters in some way. edited for grammar

Why is this always your immediate reaction everytime a topic about Holland is posted? Even when the words "toughness", "grit" or "enforcer" aren't even used, you still bring it up, like it's so terrible that issue is ever discussed. Sidenote: I love this line by Holland: That's such a great way to say F U to Burke for pillaging the Wings roster like he did. He's right, too. If Burke had put his man love for Bertuzzi aside, he could have kept Penner.

...and with yet another loss, Cleveland regains the AL central lead. Bullpen is/was awful once again. You know, it's becoming quite a common standpoint anymore of how we continue to lose games because of the bullpen. I wish DD would quit twiddling his thumbs and address this problem already. The current reasources are not getting it done, and he's crazy if he thinks Rodney will the answer. He's been just as bad as the rest. By the way: for anyone who cares, Barry Bonds (the pudgy bastard) tied Hank Aaron's record. Link on the story can be found here.

I understand what you're getting at. I don't hate Holland, and if it comes off like I do, then I apologize. I do have a problem with some of the moves he makes though. Like signing Dallas Drake for example. Mind you, I love the game Drake plays. But the fact that the guy is 38 years old, and has injury problems, wouldn't it have made sense to sign someone else? I mean, Arron Asham or Adam Hall are both much younger, neither have injury problems, and play the same type of game. They'd both come for just as cheap as Drake did. Why not sign them? One of my problems with Holland is he has the cliche to the players that he signs: they usually fall under one of these catagories: 1. They have, at one point in their career, played with the Wings no matter how long ago. He has this thing about bringing back guys that were former Wings, which I don't get. 2. They have suffered a major injury, and haven't been full time roster players in a while due to this. Examples: Bertuzzi, Drake, Norton, etc. 3. They are coming off of terrible seasons, or are at the very tail end of their careers. Examples: Calder, Bertuzzi, Drake, Lilja, Samulesson, Norton, etc. 4. Usually they are small, most of the time under 6'0. Now, I'm not saying going out and sign about 6'6 dinosaur's, but it makes no sense to sign a bunch of guys that are barely hovering around 5'10. It makes the Wings easy to be beaten up by teams like Anaheim. There might be others I might have missed as far as the charecteristics go, but you have to admit, usually the guys he brings in usually fall into 1 of those 4 catagories. My other problem with Holland is his refusel to sign a *decent* fighter. I love fighting in hockey. Growing up in a time period with guys who fought a lot, like Kocur, Dmac, Probert, Vladdy, etc., I've grown used to seeing it. Now, the Wings really have nobody that will do it on a full time basis, which I don't like. ...and unlike Lou, I don't want one purly for entertainment sake. The Wings need someone to drop the gloves and defend each other. You said before you don't feel it's an important part of the team to have the guys defend each other, but I do. And I'm sticking to it. I'm not completely anti-Holland, much to what people here accuse me of on a regular basis. I loved the Rafalski signing, since he's a way better player than Schneider was, and fills up the hole quite well with an expierenced guy who can play the PP, PK, etc. It's a lot better then throwing in some young guy like Kronwall or Lebda that has very little to no exiperence at that role. Also, even though I did point out there were better choices, I still do like the Drake signing. He does help the Wings become grittier, and we finally have a forward who will hit guys on a full-time basis. We haven't had a player who will do that up-front since the pre-lockout version of Shanny. I don't completely hate Holland. I do give him credit where it is due, but I also criticize him where it is due also. The way he's built the Wings has been less then ideal, so I've been overly critical of him recently. I hope soon he'll change my thoughts by signing another player, which we need at this point.

Scotty knows what a joke the Leafs organization is, and MLSE for that matter. I really don't see him taking that position. He'd be crazy to, since the Leafs organization is not loyal at all.

Soundgarden - Outshined

Exactly. Burke hardly had a hand in bringing anybody on the current Cup team. His biggest aquisition was Pronger, which was good, but after that it's cut and dry. Depending on who you ask, his next biggest trade aquisition was either Todd Marchant or Brad May. Niedermayer decided he was going to Anaheim before Burke was there. The young kids like Getzlaf, Perry, and Penner, were all drafted (or in Penner's case signed) when Murray was still the GM. Burke is so overrated, it's not even funny. He was a horrible GM in Vancouver, and he's still a horrible GM now in my opinion. I can't wait to see the Bertuzzi signing blow up in his face, so everybody will shut up about how great Brian Burke is a GM, because he's not.

Seriously, was Kronwall that big of a loss? He never impressed me at all last season, with the exception of his hit on Lupul. He was always mishandling the puck, or losing it, or turning it over to the other team. ...and before you say "It wuz teh cage!!!!!!11" consider the fact that Todd Fedoruk wore the very same thing in November/December and scored 2 goals while he had it, which is huge for a player like him that doesn't score a lot of goals. He never looked out of place while wearing one, so I don't count it as an excuse. I just don't consider Kronwall a loss. I mean, did you all think Quincey played that badly by saying Kronwall playing instead of him would make the difference?

Bush - The People That We Love

If Markov is gone, then give Meech the 6th spot. It would be better suited for him than Lilja. Ideally, I'd like it to go to Kyle Quincey, but he'll be going to the minors, because he still can without clearing waivers.

Wow, you act like this is a Fedorov thread or something. This is the first thread even mentioning Weiss here, so it's not like he's talked about all the time.

Excellent websites Christy! I'll be sending in for the contest also.

I would move Anaheim and St. Louis to the WHL so we no longer have to deal with their idiot fans. I'll make my official list sometime later.

Perhaps you would care to explain how Kevin Lowe signing Penner to an offer sheet makes Penner himself arrogant. I'm not following that logic.

I just found myself a new sig quote. That's great!

Would you be saying this if he was still with the Ducks? I smell a bitter fan more than anything. Don't take his side!

Exactly. It's been said that the "New NHL" if you will, has become more user friendly for small players. By small, I mean really small. Like Hudler small. Weiss isn't that small. He's 5'11, but he's still pretty close to being 6'0, and the Wings could always use more players that are at least that.

The Wings got only the 2nd round pick (Kopecky) in return for Knuble. Trading Knuble was a mistake. I said it when it happened, and I definitly stand by it now. He's become a prolific goal-scoring threat in the NHL (34 goals in 2005-2006), and we could really use him on this team. He's a perfect second-line player, and is also a right-handed shot. Kopecky will never develop into anything more than a fringe player in the NHL. Bad trade all around.

If it means the same thing, then it is the same thing. But yeah, it's true. I really laugh at the amount of people here who are mad at Holland for not giving in and giving him a 2-year contract, and are acting like he'll have a career season in Anaheim. He's so overblown, it's not even funny. Watching Bertuzzi play here was disheartning at times, since he was almost as lazy as Lang. You're right about Bertuzzi no longer using his body. I've gone on occasion to call him a wuss, because a player of his size should be hitting people. We already have one big guy that doesn't hit people (Kopecky), so why have another one like Bertuzzi. Bertuzzi leaving is addition by subraction for the Wings. He's done.

He doesn't fight anymore, though! That's my problem with him.

Hah, never noticed that. That would be the fault of the person I quoted though, not mine. Yeah, sure, I'll fix it.

Ah, ok. Usually when they say "unnamed" I fear the worst.

Who's the unnamed pitcher? Andrew Miller? If it is, I would feel Dombrowski lost his mind. Especially for a guy like Wilson, who isn't even that good. Two top prospects is a ton to be giving up for a player like him.

Did they wear the long pants when they used that logo?

Oh come on now! I have a sense of humor. It just doesn't show whenever Fedorov is involved. I'm to trying to grow past that though.