barabbas16

Hey DeKeyser and Abdelkader.... try and not combine to get outpositioned and beaten by a child sized hockey player to lose the game next time.

So, just to be clear, you're saying you think Buffalo is currently in a better possible spot than Detroit is? And, if you could, you would switch Detroit and Buffalo in the standings to obtain said more preferable spot?

Detroit will now trade Bertuzzi to Vancouver for Matthias. Full circle.

Did you say yoots? What is a yoot?

Sure, but that's not Samuelsson's fault. It is Holland's

I am. You really want Ehrhoff around even after Franzen's ridiculous deal is over and done with? Detroit already has at least enough of those long contracts, imo. And, that's the only reason the cap hit is even comparable to Quincey's. If Ehrhoff had signed a 3 year deal in 2011-12, the cap hit would be much higher. I agree that Ehrhoff is probably the better player over Edler, but the contact comes with the player. Plus, I don't really want Stewart. So, if I have to pick one or the other combo, I'll go with Kesler and Edler.

I'm sure someone posted this already, but... I wonder if Clarke MacArthur thought it was 'like water out there' based on how much the Senators were diving.

Ah, you're right! They do have a LOT more in common than just being nhl players for the Red Wings and they actually are quite comparable. I'm glad we agree on that now. I meant the statistical comparison. But, you're right, I didn't clarify that. So, why did you bring up his injuries as defense for Weiss when Samuelsson was also injured? Are you saying that Weiss's injuries should be viewed or treated differently because... you feel like they were more serious?

All irrelevant points. I never argued that Samuelsson scored more or was a better player. And, as I clearly stated, I didn't include last season or this season in the comparison. So, you comments on the injuries do not apply. Although, Samuelsson was also injured at the same time, so I hardly see the point of mentioning it. However, I agree that he is capable of 60 points with Detroit. And he should get that, based on what he is paid. It's not going to happen this season, though. But just fyi, over that same seven(7) season period, Weiss played 22 more games than Samuelsson did. Also during that time period, Weiss averaged 6% higher points per game than Samuelsson.

He seemed healthy enough to contribute vs. the U.S.

I'll try to be nice enough not to respond in kind to your unnecessary and condescending next-to-last sentence.... If, by 'go look at my numbers,' you mean state actual facts instead of posing my opinion as fact by putting "fact" in front of it, like you did. I'll spare you the actual numbers. I did go look at them, though. And, looking at 05-06 to 11-12, Weiss's ppg varied a very similar amount to that of Samuelsson's (Weiss actually varied higher). Not, "a lot more consistent," as you state. Additionally, even if his numbers did vary as much as you have fabricated inside your head that they did, that, along with his age, are things that Holland would/should have taken into consideration when Samuelsson was signed. Thus, the beef is with Holland, not Samuelsson. I think any of us, had we been in Samuelsson's position, would have signed that contract too. And, as is already established, Samuelsson's injuries last year can't be held against him any more than Weiss's can be held against him this season. Also - being NHL players for the Red Wings is the only thing the have in common - also false. They're forwards, were both injured in their first season of the current contract and had been injured the previous season. Both are also currently questionable free agent signings by Ken Holland. Where we agree: He spent 4 years with the wings and the rest of that sentence. No one was angry the 1st time around. And, Weiss is 5 years younger.

Haha! Gee, thanks for putting it into numbers for me - that's so much clearer! I am not trying to trash Weiss. I do not agree with trashing Weiss. I don't think Weiss should be judged based on 4% of his career. I give him the benefit of the doubt as well. I will be rooting for him to turn it around as much as any of you will be when he plays again. I am only using his situation to attempt to make a point, but apparently I am failing since everyone seems to be taking it in a different way that I am intending. You all seem to be taking me to be saying that I think Weiss should receive the same treatment on LGW that Samuelsson or Franzen (or insert player Kindl/Smith/Cleary/Bert/etc.) get. Quite the opposite, I am saying (or trying to say) that the treatment that Weiss is getting is a good thing.... but that I do not think that most of the other players get the same treatment on LGW. That's the part I take issue with. So, take how you were thinking that I was unjustly judging Weiss. That is how I feel that some/several Red Wings players besides Weiss are judged. And, similarly to how you responded to me, I do not agree with it. I do apologize for the difficulty/miscommunication.

I’m sorry if I confused you. I will try to clarify: I meant ‘Yeah. I know.’ as in, ‘I know that this is the line of defense that is generally given.’ And, it’s not that I disagree with it in the case of Weiss. As I said, I think/hope that Weiss at least has a good chance of returning to form also. And, of course, I agree that the injuries are not his fault. I’ll get away from the Samuelsson example here since I seem to be the only one that seems similarities between Samuelsson last year and Weiss this year… So, a similar player when it comes to body of work.... Johan Franzen. Place Franzen in Weiss's current position and I don't think he would have all of these people staunchly coming to his defense. I think he would, instead, gain full LGW 'whipping boy' status.

Sure, I agree. So, do you not think Samuelsson should have been treated the same way last season? He wasn’t. Hardly anyone came to his defense when he was trashed incessantly even though he missed practically all of the season due to injuries that were similarly ‘not his fault.’

Yeah. I know. It’s just that... everyone comes to Weiss’s defense so quickly on here. It’s as if his terrible season is acceptable. Sure, there’s hope that he’ll return to form and be an asset for the team (and I definitely share it). But, that hasn’t happened yet. All we have so far from Weiss is far less than ‘not meeting expectations.’ So far, Weiss has been a horrendous acquisition. And people act like it is a given that he’s going to turn it around. I hope he does too. It just seems hypocritical to me to give him the benefit of the doubt on that when I don’t think that other players get and/or would get that same treatment here on LGW.

SHHHH!!! Weiss isn't on the unofficial 'Players it is Acceptable to Speak Negatively About on LGW' list! Did you not get that memo?

Just finished watching the game. It induced vomiting. Go Sweden. And yes, they played a good game and earned it. I just can't stand them. At least they didn't win by diving like the Canadian women.... although Kunitz's embellishment didn't do anything to endear him further to me. Much more respect to the men for their win, though. However, I still loathe seeing them win and root for anyone against them. For this reason, I will not watch the gold medal game. I don't want to throw up any more. It is bad for my teeth.

Howard can't let in the 2nd goal. Defense can't play abysmally like they did on the 3rd goal. Deserved loss. Can't make mistakes like that.

Dabura, there is no issue. I just don't see it the same way. And, I was trying to spark a friendly debate on the subject so I could understand the opposite point of view. I think I've got it now, but I still disagree. Thanks.

You have a standard for apples and you have a standard for oranges.... except apples and oranges are actually both players on the Detroit Red Wings. There is a double standard. Weiss gets a pass for sucking and Sammy/Cleary/Bert don't.

Whether you think it vague or not, that is the definition. Therefore, I was correct in my use of the words. Ok, these are the kind of responses I was looking for. I disagree that Weiss was just invisible and not bad. I think you're splitting hairs there, but ok. Obviously Weiss is younger than the other vets mentioned and just as obviously there is much more hope that he will turn it around, mainly because he is still here for another four years. On the other hand, would you not also agree that Weiss very much has the possibility/potential to be a much worse signing than any of the others when it is all said and done? And, thus far in the Winged Wheel he has shown us nothing to lead us to believe that he is at all worth his contract? I'll agree that if we just look at them on an even playing field, maybe Weiss hasn't played as poorly as Cleary, Sammy, and Bert this season. But he was supposed to be the 2nd line center, pulling the top 6 together. He was supposed to have a bigger, more prominent role than the others. He's getting paid like it too - about as much as two of those other guys.... and got a 5 year contract. The others all have contracts that are up after this season. Also, none of the others are playing right now. The guys that everyone wanted to be playing instead of them are playing. Weiss isn't playing, but the guy he replaced has lit it up in Tampa and Detroit has no real 2nd line center in his absence, what with injuries to Datsyuk and Zetterberg.... but part of the reason Weiss was signed was so that those two could play together. For me, if I look at what was expected at the beginning of the season vs. what we've gotten so far.... I think Weiss is the furthest off the mark, currently, and the most disappointing.

Ok, I disagree. There is a double standard. I guess I just look at it differently. How can't you see the similarities? Let's look at one example... Weiss played only 17 games mast season due to injury. He has played 26 games this season, poorly, and scored 4 points. Samuelsson played only 9 games last season due to injury. He has played 26 games this season, poorly, and scored 3 points. One of the posts above clearly gives Weiss a pass for his poor play this season because of coming off of an injury. Samuelsson gets no such pass from anyone and is basically crucified on this board. And yet, in a way, he is in basically the exact same situation as Weiss. double standard n 1. a set of principles that allows greater freedom to one person or group than to another

Wait, so you guys have problems with the play of Cleary, Samuelsson, and Bertuzzi this season. Got it. That's been made abundantly clear by a ridiculous amount of posters. Weiss, though, it is ok for him to play like garbage. And don't give me he actually played better because he didn't. Weiss has sucked at least as badly as the rest of the players mentioned this season. He was terrible. Weiss had a rough go of it coming off of an injury plagued season. Yeah, that's true. None of those other guys were coming off of injury plagued seasons, so that's totally different. I get it, though.... Weiss gets the benefit of the doubt over those other guys because of all that he has given to the team in previous seasons. I mean, he contributed to a Stanley Cup victory in Detroit.... Seriously, though, can someone please explain to me this double standard? Sorry - I know it isn't a Weiss thread. I agree that the kids are contributing better than the aforementioned veterans have this season, including Stephen Weiss (at least just as much as the others mentioned).

Let's take a look at your previous post, then.... ...would we say that that is more along the lines of you 'telling the truth'? OR 'being a dick'?

I agree with Dabura. I don't think that it is the enforcers or agitators that Babcock doesn't like. It is guys that can ONLY do those things and can not contribute beyond that.