barabbas16

I like this, but I don't think it really matters. Darren Helm or Mark Hartigan does not equal an answer one way or the other for us. These are the names that need to make a difference tonight: Osgood, Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Lidstrom, Rafalski, Cleary, Holmstrom, Franzen, Kronwall...you get the idea. I like Helm getting his first playoff experience, but it doesn't really matter - Helm/Hartigan.

Mark Hartigan has played in 100 more games than Justin Abdelkader. Also, Lilja is being 'replaced' by a guy that started 78 for us this season....74 last season....46 the year before that...while Justin Abdelkader was playing college hockey. This is not a valid comparison. Don't get me wrong, I like Abdelkader and I think he will be way better than Mark Hartigan. And, I agree with you....Give the kid a shot....next season. No reason at all this kid should see the ice in the playoffs unless we are down forwards due to injury.

He's played 2 NHL games.

I like this is because I think it will get Lilja on the top of his game when he plays again...and Lebda while he is playing for that matter. It's good to get Lebda in a game in case one of our D goes down later on...he have as huge a gap between actual games. I do like Lilja for us better though overall. Lilja can play PK....and he is often in on 5 on 3s. I can't see putting Lebda in during those situations nor can I see him in on the PP. Good move for this game, but unless Lebda has an awesome game....I fully hope and expect to see Lillypads back in game 5.

Hehe...I haven't heard/seen 'no duh' in a while. I agree, everyone is allowed to make mistakes - including goalies. But, just like everyone else goalies are not outside the realm of criticism when they make mistakes. He should have had it. That's all I said. Lilja didn't have a great game, I agree. Hasek has been the difference maker in the first periods, I agree. He was a difference maker on Nashville's third goal too, just in the opposite way. I do have faith that he will pull us through, though. It's just one loss...besides, if we don't get pushed in the first round we are more vulnerable in the second. Just my opinion.

I am not much for throwing blame out at any one player, but I will say this... The key play for them was the third goal. I do not think anyone can argue that. Without it, the fourth goal most likely does not happen. And I think Dominik Hasek very much should have made a save on that third goal. I'm not saying he single handedly lost the game or is the only person at fault OR that he sucks or needs to be pulled, etc. BUT, a goaltender of Hasek's caliber has to stop that shot. End of story.

Yeah maybe I jumped on him (original poster) a little hard...but, to be honest, I wasn't just jumping on him. I get really frustrated at everyone getting down on Sammy. I really wasn't exaggerating when I said I didn't think he was a liability. I don't....not defensively, not offensively. Yeah, he shoots a lot, but it gets the puck to the net and I like that...and I haven't really heard anyone complain much about him defensively at all, and I don't see a problem there - so I don't even think that is an issue. But that isn't the point...and you started to get to it at the end of your post. The guy plays for our team. I'm sure he is playing as hard as he can. I'm sure what he does on the ice is what he thinks is the right thing to do. AND, I'm sure if Mike Babcock didn't think so, we would see him yelling at Sammy and his ice time would go down, but I don't see that. I root for him to do well and defend him because he gets dogged on so much here...and I guess I am adamant about it because I am so outnumbered, it seems. He's not like my 'favorite player' or anything, I just don't think he deserves what he gets here. I was the same way with Lilja last year. I just didn't voice it as much. Anyway, I'm done with this. Good debate : ). Go Wings! ....Go 37! lol

Hmm...Well, I disagree. Excellent attempt at turning my words around and using them against me, though. Here are the things that I said...Samuelsson is solid. He can be trusted with 13-15 minutes of ice time. He isn't a liability. And, he is a better hockey player than Aaron Downey. You said...You've NEVER seen someone play with less effort in your life than Sammy....He NEVER passes...and he puts EVERY puck right on the chest of the goalie. Who's statements sound more 'blindly biased' to you? You then went on to mention his playing on the power play - not something I had argued for or against....and you said that Abdelkader should get his minutes - again, not part of the original conversation (but seriously, I agree that Abdelkader may become better than Sammy, but he has TWO NHL games under his belt. TWO). To me, you are more than obviously one of the people I was talking about in my original post and you have proven that yourself. Look man, I didn't say Sammy was a superstar. I didn't say he was Dats or Z. He's not. That is clear. But, you talk about him like he is the worst hockey player ever and has no business being on the ice, which is obviously not true. You exaggerate immensely to make your points. You obviously hate they guy. That's fine, you are entitled to your opinion. But in this particular instance you are wrong...and, as I said, I disagree with you.

Don't get me wrong. I like Downey, but anyone who a coach can only give 5 minutes of ice time to is a liability IF you are talking about sitting someone who the coach can give 3 times that amount of ice time to in order for him to play. Downey in for Mac or Hartigan? Fine. I still don't really like it, but not enough to complain about. The point I was making is that playing Downey for Samuelsson or anyone besides McCarty or Hartigan makes no sense at all and is a poor suggestion.

Ah yes, the mistake on the power play. The same one mistake that every Sammy basher on here wasted half a second to jump on. I agree, Samuelsson didn't do well there. I notice, however, that you said 'everytime he hit the ice.' Please, tell me about something else that he did so terribly BESIDES the one thing everyone has harped on already. Or mayby I could just say....'If you watched Sammy everytime he hit the ice, you'd agree. Last game, he totally set up that Draper goal and that was right after Nashville had taken ALL the momentum and the air had been TOTALLy taken out of the team and the building....AND we MIGHT not have the lead and the momentum back if it HADN'T been for Mikael Samuelsson on that play.' BUT, that wouldn't be representative of his entire game. Fact is, Samuelsson is a solid two-way forward. He is a MUCH better hockey player than Aaron Downey. .... But, every mistake Samuelsson makes is blown completely out of proportion on this board. Every player makes mistakes, but for some reason everyone enjoys verbally crucifying Sammy for his.

Absolutely absurd. It seems that the vast majority of the people on this board are blindly biased against Sammy. Let's replace someone who played a solid 13+ minutes in both Game 1 and Game 2 (you would see that if you were not one of the aforementioned blindly biased individuals) and is NOT a liability on the ice in everything OTHER than fighting with ANOTHER player who Babcock will only be able to give 5 minutes of ice time or less because he has a grand total of one (1) thing he does well for the team. Samuelsson brings so much more to the table for this team, it is pathetic that this argument even has to be made....repeatedly.

Not to mention the fact that Dandenault actually has some size.

LOL. Oh man...old school SNL - Love it. Taking it back to hockey....part of me wants the Wings to play the Ducks just to beat them.....but I think I want the Stars so I can avoid those 10:00 game times until absolutely necessary. ... I'll take 'swords' for $100 ...... That's 'S' Words, Mr. Connery

I'll take The rapists for 200. THAT'S THERAPISTS!

Aaaand that would be a wrap on this argument. Besides, his whining is inconsistent....he whines about Homer being 'in the blue' on Lidstrom's goal....but also whines that the goal that was waived off in the 1st should have counted for them...maybe I wasn't watching closely enough, but I'm pretty sure at least 75% of Radek Bonk was 'in the blue' when that puck got through.

Downey have played a total of 56 games in a Wings jersey. Darren McCarty has played over 700. Stood up for the team all season long? Ok, I will give you that (even though 56 games is not all season).....but that pales in comparison to ten seasons...3 Stanley Cups...and the vast playoff experience you get with Mac imo. There is no argument as far as 'deserves.' Downey has given nothing to this team when compared to Darren McCarty.

Apology accepted. Go Wings!

Since your post implies an insult to me and my family, I must respond.... Screw you buddy.

Ok, in all seriousness....without talking down to me because I don't share your exact same opinion.....Could someone PLEASE explain to me the resoning behind everyone on this boards obsession with Aaron Downey? I mean, I like the guy...I like him on the ice instead of Hartigan too, and I'm not talking about just this game...I am speaking in general. What's the deal? He plays like 5 minutes a game and is capable of helping the team in one category - which doesn't even happen all that often. Someone please enlighten me so that I can understand. Does everyone just love fighting that much? Is that the most important part of the game or something?

What about Ritola? Is he not an 'option' anymore?...or did he just want to throw Meech a bone since he isn;t getting much time on D?

Or, you could just go with 1 shot every time someone posts a message on this board trashing Samuelsson. That ought to get your stomach pumped.

Best two former Wings in the league? PLEASE tell me that there's someone I am not thinking of and that you are not referring to Sean Avery as the second best former Wing in the league. This is a league that Sergei Fedorov is still a part of, lest ye forget. Let's see if I can think of a few more that would be higher ont he list that Sean Avery..... Vyacheslav Kozlov Martin Lapointe Mathieu Dandenault Mathieu Schneider Manny Legace Aaron Ward and while I am at it, let me continue with MORE players... Curtis Joseph Boyd Devereaux Robert Lang Jason Williams Mike Knuble Mike Sillinger Ray Whitney Anders Eriksson Ok, maybe I went a little overboard there at the end, but I hope I still got my point across.

eh whatever...they did the same thing last year and probably every year. Everyone was bashing Lilja and then he got into a few fights and had a good playoffs and now you don't hear it NEARLY as much. If Samuelsson starts playing well, they'll just find someone else to single out and complain about him. Some people have to have something to complain about...and no one can make them eat crow if he has a killer second half either, so what do they have to lose? It really is fickle, but whatever. They still cheer when he scores. Personally, I like Samuelsson and don't think he should or will be traded.

More importantly, he only played 3 full seasons with the Red Wings and the Wings were/are the 6th team he has played for. Sergei Fedorov had played his entire career with the Wings when he left. Thirteen seasons. 3 Stanley Cups. Don't get me wrong, I don't boo Fedorov and I like Schneider, but there is no comparison between his potentially leaving and when Fedorov left to go be 'the man' in Disney world....in my eyes anyway.

Don't crucify me if this has already been discussed - I didn't see it. Ok, so obviously Matthias....but after all is said and done now, what draft pick(s) did we lose? Wasn't one of the 'conditions' on the draft picks that he be in the top six in scoring? - or do I remember that wrong? Obviously, that didn't happen. Can someone help me out with specifics here?