If Howard becomes the "guy".....

[gcom007 1,465]

If Howard wins it all, he wouldn't get 3 mil? Are you kidding?

Never underestimate the desperation of certain GMs who want to or have to a) get off the cap floor b) overpay for flash in the pan players and c) get into a bidding war

He's young, a fairly high draft pick who we've deemed our future. I get we're cheapskates who undervalue everyone but if you think someone wouldn't give him around 5 you're not with it. Winning a Cup boosts the rep of any goalie. Look at what it did for Fleury, who is mediocre.

I do agree with you on this. Hell, he doesn't even need to win the Cup to get $3 million in today's NHL. I think so long as he simply doesn't completely s*** the bed between now and July 1, 2011, he'll be worth $3-4 million on the open market. If he wins a Cup, $5 million, easy. I don't like it, and I definitely don't want to pay it, but it is what it is.

And I wouldn't call it undervaluing guys. I'd call it valuing the team over the individual and winning. Don't forget, all that "undervaluing" has a lot to do with why the Red Wings have been the best TEAM in the NHL for the last 10 years. I think it's perhaps far more accurate to suggest that too many around the NHL overvalue guys, especially goalies. As said, you need solid goaltending to win, but if you're paying a goalie $7-8 million a year, you're almost guaranteed to have too many other parts missing from the equation to go all the way.

I don't like signing young guys to big money and I don't like signing role guys to big money.

And I would never sign Roberto Luongo in a million years.

[gcom007 1,465]

I kind of do too. If Ozzy is playing well, I'd honestly probably feel better with him between them pipes, knowing what he did the last two seasons.

But I would like to see what Jimmy is capable of, and I'm also a little annoyed at Ozzy's up and down regular season play. If he flipped the switch again, it'd be a nice problem to have to potential starting goaltenders, but still begs the question "why couldn't you play that way in the regular season?"

I respect the frustration about Osgood in the regular season, and generally respect your perspective on things around here, but I've gotta say, if not for last year, I don't think we'd be making these kinds of points.

I don't know what happened last year with Osgood. I have no idea really besides simple explanations like laziness and lack of focus. He probably also went in thinking Babcock would give him a bit more credit than in the past and when Babcock didn't really react any differently to much of anything, he probably let it get to his head which doesn't help either issue. After all, Holland was the guy who stepped in and sorted out Osgood's issues last year and got him on the right track. So that was that and the playoffs roled around and he played even better than the previous year despite the team being riddled with injuries.

We may have lost, but Osgood put in a Conn Smythe-worthy performance to silence Babcock, the team, the city, even the media and certainly the voices in his head. But now a lot of people want to look at this season and say we're right back to last seasons issues, but I just don't think that's the case.

Osgood has not played as great as Howard has lately, but he has been far and away better this year than last. Sans a couple games (and every goalie has those games...) Osgood has been pretty solid. He was much better in October than he was given credit for when the team was playing terrible defensively. Before he went down with the flu and Howard got going, Osgood had three strong games followed by that Toronto massacre that he had no part of.

And ever since then we haven't gotten a consistent enough look at Osgood to know one way or the other how up and down he's been this year. I don't think you can make accurate assessments on goalies when they're lucky if they get one start in a week, especially when you've got a guy like Osgood who's used to playing and thrives on the momentum.

I'll say flat out that I don't think Osgood will touch what Howard's been doing the last few weeks in the regular season, but I don't think that means that we'd be saying Osgood is playing bad or even "up and down" if he was getting regular starts. I really think he's looked far better this regular season than last in every way. You could see it in his face early on that he wasn't rattled or out of it like last year, but the thing is, he really hasn't gotten a chance to prove it and again, drastically inconsistent starts is not going to help matters much for any goalie used to starting.

So long story short, I really think that the notion that Osgood isn't playing well has far more to do with the fact that Howard's been so great than the reality of the situation as it pertains to Osgood. I think once Osgood does get a chance to string some starts together and shake off some rust that the reasonable people will see that.

I've been watching Osgood as long as he's been here. I wasn't worried about him coming around last year when he blatantly was playing terribly and I said so again and again. "Quote me on it in June," was my common closing statement and in the end I was right. So this year when I don't think he's been nearly so bad, I've got to say it again, don't count this guy out, today or come the playoffs.

And hey, quote me on it in June.

[Doc Holliday 1,888]

Goalies don't win Cups. Teams do.

Glad you completely skipped over my point.

[Guest zackmorris]

Goalies are part of a team, no?

I think it's tough for a goalie to win a Cup on his own, I'll give you that. You can look at Hasek in Buffalo, Cujo in 2004, or even last year with Osgood and the Grand Rapids Red Wings as examples of that. You need all the parts kicking to win.

A goalie, short of maybe Dom Hasek, won't ever win a Cup by himself. But it's like QB-he can sure as hell lose you any game, any time. That's the nature of the sport(s).

Legace fell apart and gave up every backbreaking goal imaginable and he did so against marginal offensive pressure at best. Basically, he just sucked. It doesn't help the team when you've got a goalie playing like s***.

If Howard sees action and s***'s the bed like Legace did, what do you think that's going to do to the team? When Osgood goes in there and is cool every game and making the big saves, that's huge for a team.

Yeah but Ozzie won't do it forever. We're just tempting fate by assuming the last 2 seasons are some huge sample size and the end all be all.

Howard's yet to be proven but whent hey hell are we EVER going to feel comfortable putting him in? When we absolutely have to?!? Every goalie was a rookie postseason netminder at one point or another and we're fools to think his regular season counts for nothing.

No team can win without a great goalie, unless you're Pittsburgh and you get awarded one for having Crosby on the team.

[zettie85 106]

If Howard wins it all, he wouldn't get 3 mil? Are you kidding?

Never underestimate the desperation of certain GMs who want to or have to a) get off the cap floor b) overpay for flash in the pan players and c) get into a bidding war

He's young, a fairly high draft pick who we've deemed our future. I get we're cheapskates who undervalue everyone but if you think someone wouldn't give him around 5 you're not with it. Winning a Cup boosts the rep of any goalie. Look at what it did for Fleury, who is mediocre.

Fleury was highly touted and was a starter for like 4 years already in Pittsburgh. Jimmy was a decently high draft pick but took a long time to develop which we aren't even sure if he has yet. If we test him and he wins the cup we still have him for next year at the price he is at. If he has a good season and post season next year then yes we will pay him much more. It would depend on his play next year not this year. Ya a cup would up his value but no team is that bad off in goal to spend that kind of money on him if his contract was to be up this year.

What team is that bad off that they don't even have a player of Jimmy's caliber in their development system already?

[Guest zackmorris]

That's the thing-they won't be looking at who they have who is Jimmy's caliber because his caliber instantly gets bumped the second he wins a Cup.

A team like Edmonton has shown they'll toss a 5 mil contract at anyone. They're desperate for any good news up there and their only real starter is 95 years old and injured. They'd take a 26 year old Cup winner in a heartbeat.

If Lehtonen left ATL you can bet they'd be interested. Pavelec is nice and all but again, a 26 year old Cup winning 2nd round pick is just a proven commodity.

I could see Philly going after him too. Same with TB, Ottawa, TO or STL. Heaven forbid they get into a small bidding war.

Contracts deemed ridiculous are handed out all the time. There are multiple ones every year. If Jeff Finger can get 3.5 million, a Cup winning 26 year old with a long development period sure as hell would fetch more.

Edited January 14, 2010 by zackmorris

[zettie85 106]

That's the thing-they won't be looking at who they have who is Jimmy's caliber because his caliber instantly gets bumped the second he wins a Cup.

A team like Edmonton has shown they'll toss a 5 mil contract at anyone. They're desperate for any good news up there and their only real starter is 95 years old and injured. They'd take a 26 year old Cup winner in a heartbeat.

If Lehtonen left ATL you can bet they'd be interested. Pavelec is nice and all but again, a 26 year old Cup winning 2nd round pick is just a proven commodity.

I could see Philly going after him too. Same with TB, Ottawa, TO or STL. Heaven forbid they get into a small bidding war.

Contracts deemed ridiculous are handed out all the time. There are multiple ones every year. If Jeff Finger can get 3.5 million, a Cup winning 26 year old with a long

development period sure as hell would fetch more.

Kevin Lowe isn't in charge anymore up in Edmonton.

The amount teams would have to give up for him is ridiculous. Toronto doesn't even have the picks anymore to even make an attempt and Burke is set on Gustavsson anyways.

Besides if Jimmy wins a cup this year the Wing's would definitely throw an extension deal in front of him in a heartbeat and not even let him get to next year without it. He would sign it. It wouldn't be for 5 mil, I can guarantee that.

Edit: Didn't realize until now but he will be a UFA when his contract is up. So nix my comments about the picks.

If he wins a cup though the Wing's will re-sign him. You could be right though about him taking the big money and leaving Det. if he is a UFA but I doubt it.

Edited January 14, 2010 by zettie85

[Guest zackmorris]

I was just talking hypothetical, as if he was out there freely and anyone could sign him. If we start taking into account interest from Ken Holland and realistic scenarios, he wouldn't move from Detroit unless he had a massive ego meltdown. And I doubt we'd take picks for him unless we were desperate. He wouldn't move and he'd probably sign with us.

[Hockeytown0001 7,652]

I doubt they'd be developing Jimmy this long only to see him walk. They'll get him re-signed.