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10/12 GDT: Avalanche 5 at Red Wings 4 (SO)


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#881 Howard He Do It?!

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 06:25 PM

Once again, you rant and rave about how Howard didn't see the shot, but why? What leads you to believe Howard couldn't see that? Cause you just thought so?

I see a camera angle and see that Howard likely saw the puck through Janik's legs. You see a camera angle, think it i inconclusive to anything, and make your opinion.



Cute, but meaningless. Though with the line you drew we can infer that Howard likely didn't see Jones's elbow due to Janik being in front of him.

I don't know about you but I have trouble seeing things when someone is standing right in front of me. You see that and I see an inconclusive shot from a poor camera angle. My red line is just as meaningless as yours. Around and around we go. What's next Doc?

Yeah, it proves Janik is standing in front of him but that doesn't automatically cause Howard to be unable to see anything that is in front of him at that point.

Is Janik transparent? Howard's view was impeded by Janik.

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#882 Doc Holliday

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 06:27 PM

I don't know about you but I have trouble seeing things when someone is standing right in front of me.


If someone is standing in front of you with their legs apart, would it be as difficult to see a ball two feet in front of them as it would be to see a person's chest at that same distance?

You see that and I see an inconclusive shot from a poor camera angle. My red line is just as meaningless as yours. Around and around we go. What's next Doc?


Whatever you say. You believe you cannot logically infer certain things from different angles, and I believe you can.

Still I will maintain that even without that red line Howard saw the puck.

I also never said Janik was invisible, which is why I said you can safely infer Howard didn't see Jones's elbow with Janik in the way. But there is a lot more visible below Janik's waist than above. Janik isn't a six foot box.

Edited by Doc Holliday, 13 October 2010 - 06:28 PM.

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#883 Howard He Do It?!

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 06:36 PM

If someone is standing in front of you with their legs apart, would it be as difficult to see a ball two feet in front of them as it would be to see a person's chest at that same distance?

This all depends on the goalie's field of vision relative to the height between Janik's legs and the ice. It is possible that Howard saw through his legs and it is possible that he had a great view of Janik's ass. None of this can be confirmed or inferred from your provided picture.

Whatever you say. You believe you cannot logically infer certain things from different angles, and I believe you can.

I believe you can but this angle is so poor in regards to the relevant discussion that it is comical to infer, but that will not stop me from allowing you to do so.

Still I will maintain that even without that red line Howard saw the puck.

And I will maintain that he did not.

I also never said Janik was invisible, which is why I said you can safely infer Howard didn't see Jones's elbow with Janik in the way. But there is a lot more visible below Janik's waist than above. Janik isn't a six foot box.

Again this is all relative to Howard's height off of the ice, his field of view, the distance between Janik's legs and the ice, etc. A red line and a poor camera angle add nothing to this discussion.

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#884 Doc Holliday

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 06:41 PM

And we will leave it at that.

Now time for this thread to sink to the depths of the forum. Lets hope we get a celebratory thread for the Dallas GDT.

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#885 T.Low

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 06:42 PM

Sh*t happens.



I don't really ever use thesauruses.


Apparently not. If you did, you would have probably used "thesauri" instead of the more proletariet version "thesaruses". I'm just saying...

#886 Howard He Do It?!

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 06:46 PM

And we will leave it at that.

Now time for this thread to sink to the depths of the forum. Lets hope we get a celebratory thread for the Dallas GDT.

I can agree to that.

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#887 Broken 16

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 06:54 PM

How can you say it is a fact that the goal was bad and then go on to say how it is debatable? When someone's opinion is dismissed so easily over something that is debatable, no where near close to factual, then I am going to call it out. It's not like I said Datsyuk shoots right handed. If I said that and tried to defend it then I would be wrong because it is a fact that he shoots left handed. Saying the goal wasn't bad is a matter of opinion and is an acceptable answer because the answer is debatable, not factual. Yeah, you're right, whatever.



Look... if you want to give Jimmy a free pass on that goal, fine. I couldn't care less. But...

In my opinion it wasn't as bad as everyone is making it out to be



You said yourself that the goal was bad. Not 'as bad' as everyone is making out... but still bad. So are we examining all the grey now? Like I said, not interested.

I'll sit back and await your backstroke on that comment. In the future, try not to make statement that are counteractive to your point... whatever that is.

Edited by Broken 16, 13 October 2010 - 06:55 PM.


#888 Heaten

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 07:01 PM

I'm with Doc, Howard blew that one. It was soffttt

#889 Howard He Do It?!

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 07:08 PM

Look... if you want to give Jimmy a free pass on that goal, fine. I couldn't care less. But...

You cared enough to comment and continue to comment so that's BS.


You said yourself that the goal was bad. Not 'as bad' as everyone is making out... but still bad. So are we examining all the grey now? Like I said, not interested.

I'll sit back and await your backstroke on that comment. In the future, try not to make statement that are counteractive to your point... whatever that is.

Nice try on trying to make it sound like I called the goal bad when I did not. Saying the goal is not as bad as everyone is making it out to be and saying the goal is bad are two completely different things. Now you are just arguing word choice. I didn't think the goal was bad due to the fact that Janik was right in front of Howard before, during and after the shot. That's my point and I made no counteractive comments to such. The way some of these posters are making the goal out to be, my statement of "not as bad" is spot on and in complete agreeance with my original point.

Good job with the lying and even better job with the flame baiting at the end there.

Edited by Howard He Do It?!, 13 October 2010 - 07:08 PM.

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#890 Broken 16

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 07:10 PM

You cared enough to comment and continue to comment so that's BS.



Nice try on trying to make it sound like I called the goal bad when I did not. Saying the goal is not as bad as everyone is making it out to be and saying the goal is bad are two completely different things. Now you are just arguing word choice. I didn't think the goal was bad due to the fact that Janik was right in front of Howard before, during and after the shot. That's my point and I made no counteractive comments to such. The way some of these posters are making the goal out to be, my statement of "not as bad" is spot on and in complete agreeance with my original point.

Good job with the lying and even better job with the flame baiting at the end there.




Haven't seen FinnishWing in a while... and you seem to argue JUST LIKE HIM. Uncanny. Lol.

I don't really care. I just call a spade a spade and you admitted that it was a bad goal in my opinion. Good enough for me. Have a good night. ;)

Edited by Broken 16, 13 October 2010 - 07:11 PM.


#891 Howard He Do It?!

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 07:11 PM

Haven't seen FinnishWing in a while... and you seem to argue JUST LIKE HIM. Uncanny. Lol.

Great response. It has absolutely nothing to do with what we were talking about. This "discussion" is over. Thanks for playing.

I don't really care. I just call a spade a spade and you admitted that it was a bad goal in my opinion. Good enough for me. Have a good night. ;)

Ugh. People with these hit and run edits.

Stop saying you don't care. If you didn't care you wouldn't post. I know what I said and I never said it was a bad goal.

Edited by Howard He Do It?!, 13 October 2010 - 07:16 PM.

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#892 esteef

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 07:29 PM

Janik just texted me and said that goal was Jimmy's fault.

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#893 GoWings1905

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 08:31 PM

It isn't a head-on view. It's impossible to tell how Howard's sight lined up with the puck.

Inconclusive evidence.


The puck went through Howard's legs. I don't care where Janik was standing - Howard, as an NHL goaltender, has to stop a puck on the ice that could only beat him through the five hole.

It was a soft goal. We don't really need "conclusive evidence" to confirm it.
 
 
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#894 gcom007

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 08:49 PM

Who cares? It was his 2nd start! It wasn't his best game but whatever. It wasn't awful. Soft goals or not, it's early. Howard He Do It, you need to relax a bit on this one. One rough game and an announcement that he isn't getting the next start is just not a big deal at this point in the season. He'll get a chance to bounce back and he probably will. Patience.
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#895 Howard He Do It?!

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 09:04 PM

Who cares? It was his 2nd start! It wasn't his best game but whatever. It wasn't awful. Soft goals or not, it's early. Howard He Do It, you need to relax a bit on this one. One rough game and an announcement that he isn't getting the next start is just not a big deal at this point in the season. He'll get a chance to bounce back and he probably will. Patience.

Thanks for the advice but I'm not going to take it. I'm simply defending Howard over what I believe to be right. I agree, it's not a big deal that Howard is not getting the start tomorrow. I never even brought that into my argument. It's too early to claim Howard as a star but it's also too early to take him out back and shoot him. And I'm perfectly calm thank you very much.

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#896 Crymson

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 09:32 PM

Apparently not. If you did, you would have probably used "thesauri" instead of the more proletariet version "thesaruses". I'm just saying...


I think it's a bit odd that in the context of someone accusing me of using overly-sophisticated language, you're criticizing me for using the language of the common masses :P

And yes, I know of the existence of the word "thesauri"; -i is the plural form of the Latin -us (with some exceptions). I took three years of Latin in high school :)

It was a soft goal. We don't really need "conclusive evidence" to confirm it.


I think the entire point of the arguments of that other fellow and I is that we believe it's not a soft goal. Showing up and declaring in response to us that it was a soft goal doesn't make much sense.

#897 GMRwings1983

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 09:39 PM

Give it up, Doc.

Every goal last night was deflected, including the one in the shootout.
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#898 Broken 16

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 09:57 PM



Stop saying you don't care.




I don't care.


The puck went through Howard's legs. I don't care where Janik was standing - Howard, as an NHL goaltender, has to stop a puck on the ice that could only beat him through the five hole.

It was a soft goal. We don't really need "conclusive evidence" to confirm it.



This. The only way that goal goes in is if Howard is being lazy with the stick, loses focus because he assumes Janik has it handled or a bee flies into his helmet. He was in position and the puck should have hit him. Not slide under his stick and between his legs. I don't care what league you play in, that's a bad goal. That puck was supposed to harmlessly hit Howard's stick and get covered. I'd bet any money that Howard would tell you the same thing.

It makes no difference whether or not he could see it. He knew where it was and his angle was fine. It didn't surprise him and hit top corner. It slid underneath him.

Edited by Broken 16, 13 October 2010 - 10:12 PM.


#899 Heroes of Hockeytown

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 10:16 PM

I agree with GoWings and Broken 16 here. While Howard may not have been able to see the puck, it's indisputable that Jones was in a very dangerous scoring position and he had every opportunity to shoot it (with a chance that Janik would block it, which he did not). Howard has to take away the low part of the net; if it goes higher then he can't really do anything about it, given Jones' fantastic shooting position (if not awkward shooting angle), but as it was he got zero lift on the puck.
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#900 Doc Holliday

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 10:27 PM

Give it up, Doc.

Every goal last night was deflected, including the one in the shootout.


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