Shaman

I would say Detroit was better last year though, at least in goal and forward the defense is kind of a push. Flower is terrible, but he's also unpredictable, and he has the talent and the bipolar play necessary to be the game stealing goalie.

It's really hard to say that they would be better with Datsyuk or Zetterberg, my point being that since we don't have access to a world where Z and D were healthy, it's impossible to say that the team would be in a better position or not.

Okay, hate to throw the monkey wrench into the works here, but, these kids are producing at a really high level. Now I am not saying they have replaced Z and D, but they have soften the blow a lot. What you should ask yourself are the following: #1 How much different would things be if you added D and Z, and subtracted Nyquist, and Sheahan? Because remember that on the perfectly healthy day roster neither of these guys made the cut. #2 Will this team ever be perfectly healthy? Z is by far my favorite player in the league, but, he now has a pretty impressive history of injury. We can speculate on what this team would or could do, but is this team actually capable of being healthy anymore?

Well in that cause, Bertuzzi for the Selke!

I am sure you can get some pretty great odds on that at Vegas.

It comes down to something as simple as this: Within the bounds of the rules it was a goal. Therefore, it was a goal. We hate it now, but, if the situation was reversed we would be lauding the ref for making a fine call. This isn't 2002 when the refs were making phantom calls about the exact position of Homer's ass in time and space, this is the right call technically speaking. Now, I hate it, I wish the ref was blind and called it a no goal.

Don't worry, soon the rest of the team will be injured the way things are going.

When Luke Glendening and Drew Miller are getting third line nods, and their names were heard more than most of your 2nd and 1st liners, there is a problem. It's not about abandoning them, I would root for them if they were 0-67 right now, but I also know that this team needs this wake up call.

As of today their chances of making the playoffs stands at around 30%. Is it better to try to rush the injured players back, risk further complications to improve that to 50%? Or if they do make it for them to get bounced in the first round? It's time to decide to shut Zetterberg and Datsyuk down for the season, let them use this period to get 100% healthy, and start fresh next season.

Should have packed it in at the trade deadline and sold Alfie and Quiency. This team hasn't been a playoff team outside of a period in November and December, the rest of the year it was a lottery team. No use kidding ourselves.

Pulks on the 4th line, Miller on the 3rd. Great strategy Babcock, I think he has early golf plans this year.

Every game is must win. The Wings are already behind the 8 ball, and they only put themselves further behind every point they miss.

Pulu is more of a pure goal scorer, also before an injury his draft year he was projected as a top 10 draft pick in a very strong draft.

This team is a product. When you're not happy with a product you don't just suck it up and support it anyway. If you bought an iPhone and it gave you hemorrhoids you don't just say 'oh well, you have to be a fan of Apple and support the product good or bad".

I don't know whether to laugh or vomit. This is so clearly a homer goggles statement I hesitated even responding to it. Let me start with what I came here to post: All number one d-men are not created equal. There are #1A defensemen, those who on most teams would be a #1 over even whomever they have as their current #1. These would be your top 10 defensemen in the league. Kronwall is not in this category. They play big minutes, they shut down elite opponents and they put up a lot of points. These are your usual suspects when Norris conversations come up. Then there are #1B, they are guys who are capable of playing big minutes, or scoring a lot of points. But they don't have all the tools to be elite, but they are good enough. This is where Kronwall falls. He has a good tool box, but none of his tools are good enough to make him stand out head and shoulders. He's good offensively, but not elite. He's able to play the big minutes, but, he also has brainfarts. And to be honest, if Crosby or Malkin is on the ice I'd personally wouldn't be comforted to see Kronwall on the ice sans Datsyuk or Zetterberg. I personally think Kronwall would benefit with a better partner, another #1B defenseman, where he wouldn't be expected to be everything all the time. Now to what VM said: I would take Chara, Keith, Suter, Weber, OEL, and Doughty over Kronwall right now without a second thought. I would take Karlsson, Yandle, Elder, Bouwmeester and Pietrangelo in most situations over Kronwall 9 times out of 10.That right there is enough to make the statement he is top ten pretty laughable. He's good, he's just nowhere near top 10. Top 15 would still put him in very good company, and you would have a legitimate argument for it, but hyperbole serves no one.

Yeah! Andersson's injury severely cripples the teams offense! I mean it's not like hes a younger, slower, Swedish Cory Emmerton or something.

Florida. They are where bad contracts go.

Okay and? Just because there are people less competent at their job than Holland has been in the last few years doesn't mean that Holland gets a pass.

a formal contest in which the affirmative and negative sides of a proposition are advocated byopposing speakers.

I'll just point out this isn't a debate.

And everyone knows yours, naive and myopic though it is.

Convert? One only needs to look at the evidence. 4-5 seasons ago the if you said on this board that success was fighting tooth and nail for the 8th seed in the playoffs you'd be drawn and quartered. A few short years later people have now redefined success to mean barely make it into the playoffs. I'm sorry that I have higher standards than mediocrity, and want to see a real plan for long term competitiveness. If you're satisfied with being a team that makes the playoffs, but never really gets anywhere, great, keep telling yourself Holland is great. If not, maybe it's time you look at the track record and realize that this man has no plan for this team.

I see your poster and I raise you:

My favorite one is that the Holland apologist act as though this pick magically keeps the playoff streak alive. If they don't make the playoffs is this still a good move in your opinion?