Wing Across The Pond

Just to make it clear, I wasn't necessarily saying "come here" just wanted thoughts on his comeback in general. He is 42 after all. Don't think he'd fit here anymore, plus don't think he'd come back. Also makes that 1 day contract he signed to retire a Star all the more ridiculous in hindsight

Yeah I get what you mean. But consider more 2 way forwards winning it in the last 10 years than scorers (Malkin being the only real winner who purely scored arguably), do you think a forward focusing on D is the most important thing in a playoff series? Because like I said we're still probably the best with 2 way depth. We just need our defense to play strong and sensible and limit errors mainly I'd say, and we could still be OK. Not saying we're 'contenders' like we've been in the past, but really don't think it's all doom and gloom like we're going to completely miss out. There are occasions where we can practically put out 5 guys who can all play D. Which I think is still pretty darn good.

Is it just me, or do teams that go deep into the playoffs not do so because of good defense, but because of good defense and a strong defensive forwards? I mean Lidstrom and Scott Niedermayer are the only two D men to win the Conn Smythe in the last 10 years and that was for their offense. Whereas a lot of the forwards who have won it have been defensively minded in their series (think Z, Toews, Richards - again thinking last 10 years). I mean more Goaltenders have won it that defensemen. I understand good D is still vital (that goal for NSH this year still haunts my thoughts... just watching all 3 players follow the puck... oh goodness) but if we get a good solid defensive structure and the players get some confidence in them going into the playoffs, does anything still think we could steal a round or two by having players like Z, or Dats, or Helm, or Flip, Abby, etc playing strong on D as well? That and Jimmy keeping this season's early numbers rolling all year. Just looking for some positivity as I think we still have the best group of 2-way forwards in this league

As I mentioned earlier, I don't think Holland is against overpaying, just not for guys that are going to be dogs*** in 10 years when we're still paying them $7-7.5 at 40. Overpay for someone like Weber who is going to remain a Top 5 D man for a good number of years, not for Suter who was the best of what was on offer. I mean think about it, if we get Weber next year for the same contract that Suter is on now, we get the better deal. After all Suter wasn't the best on the blue line in NSH whilst Weber was there, so surely we'd be getting the better player for the same price? In my mind that's better business than throwing the money at the best of what's available and then having someone else take a better player the next year. Hope I'm making sense in all this...

For one I don't think Holland expected the retirement this season. Yes he should have been planning a replacement but maybe giving Smith time this year was part of that. I think Lids' ankle injury forced his hand a bit and then Holland was feeling the strain and thought he needed to sign someone for this season. I would go out and say that most of us here probably couldn't give a definitive name to replace him because we'd all make snap decisions on what this team needs NOW without giving it all the though a GM necessarily would to assess the best possible solution. For example I wouldn't be able to give you a good name to replace Lidstrom, because I haven't seen our D in action yet and found the areas where they greatly need improving... if at all any of this makes sense? Lumped these 4 quotes together because they all make good points. We didn't overpay this FA but still have a lot of cash left over. I agree, the contracts that were given to Suter and Parise were pretty horrible considering their length and price and I'm glad we didn't get stuck in that mess. Yet I also agree with esteef that we need to get someone big. I would say, however, that for the money that's on the table for players these days more ARE actually too expensive. Suter and Parise are good but they're not elite, best players in the league. Therefore I'm glad we didn't sign them to those levels of contract. I would offer it to Weber next year though, a long term, high money deal, as he is a Top 5 premier defenceman in this league and will continue to be for years to come. THAT, I think, is the difference with keeping the money and bringing in players to fill the gaps, and dolling out a large contract. They have to be worth the money when they're pushing 40 like Lids has been. I know it's incomparable with other defencemen in this era but he was worth the money after all those years. Much like Brodeur is worth the $5m or whatever it was that he got, because he's still a game changer even into his twilight. Suter and Parise wont be IMO, Weber could well be.

On the NHL.com homepage their video section is showing the top hits from the last season. Safe to say, they're all good yet I was sad to see that after about 50% of the hits shown (probably even more) someone felt the need to try and drop the gloves and beat seven shade out of the hitter. It actually made me sad. Whilst most seemed to be targeting Phaneuf probably because no one really likes him, all of his hits were good, clean hits that had no reason (apart from him being Dion Phaneuf) for retaliation. Beyond that I noticed that pretty much every time a Boston player was hit clean anywhere on the ice a teammate would come along and try to retaliate, even to the point where a player makes a good clean hit and Caron and Campbell just start cross checking him when he's sitting on the ice (strangely again I think it was Phaneuf... that boy can't keep out of trouble). Bergeron even does it as well. Then when a Boston player makes a hit they feel some sort of injustice at opposition players retaliating?! Much like Chris Neil who seems to think only he is allowed to retaliate after a hit. There are some real beauties of hits on there, I'll try to link it in below, but it saddened me to see how many people were trying the fisty-cuffs after good, clean, hockey hits LINK: http://video.nhl.com/videocenter/console?hdpid=49&id=154687〈=en5 I think it might start about a 1/3rd of the way in for some reason but it's easy to navigate really

When they're both 40 and you're still stuck with a cap hit of $7.5m it wont look like such a good deal. And you shoot yourself in the foot with the "far and away the top 2 guys in the free agent market". Means nothing in the context of the league. They could well be only top 50 in the league yet are earning top 5 numbers because they were all that was on offer. They're not Crosby, Stamkos, Malkin, Datsyuk, Kane, Toews, Sedins, etc. They're good, but not league leaders. Imagine a FA pool that has no big stars in it, starts with borderline 2nd line players, most likely 3rd liners, do you pay them $5m because they're the best on offer? Nah. Holland may have offered them more than they were worth as well but anyway you slice it, it's still overpayment

Lol and meanwhile Phazon isn't any closer to finding their picture. Was it the Stanley Cup parade? I remember him wearing a hat and sunglasses then

http://www.nhl.com/ice/blogpost.htm?id=10559&navid=DL|NHL|home Take that for what it's worth... he wants to stay, they think he'll stay, but if either gets a sniff that the other doesn't want it, he'll be gone in a flash

I can see us trying hard for Nash, but I can't see us giving up Flip, not because he's worth so much to us (which I think he is) but simply because I can't see Holland dumping him in Columbus after all he's given us over the years. If they do use him in a trade it'll be for Ryan so that Flip gets to play with Selanne and we can at least thank him for his service. For some reason I don't see a GM who history has shown respects his players so much, just dump a good promising player who has given his all for a team from the draft onto a bland team where he wont shine or have anything going for him. If Flip goes it'll be to Anaheim

Lol Bogozian would be MAD But he'll never be traded. As for Subban, regardless of 'talent' or 'potential', we wont give up someone who's name was thrown around the locker room in future captain's talks (apparently) for someone who in all public knowledge is immature and a cancer (again, apparently)

Not to mention of course that if they relocate to QC it would be a straight, easy swap between them and Winnipeg conference-wise. Just seems to be the best situation

Me and my friend were talking about this over a drink tonight and thought the same thing, we tried to count off the teams that would legitimately overtake us to knock us out of the playoffs this year... couldn't think of eight teams to do it. Don't think it's as simple as you've put it that Minny are the ONLY team that's improved but we're certainly not left in the dust by everyone else. Think we got a slight bit tougher this year but lost skill.

This could work, don't average out the cap hits just make them representative of salary. So front loaded contracts will be $12m year 1.... down to $0.5-1m year 12. That way a lot of teams wouldn't do it because first they'd actually be paying $7.5 when a player is 40/41, or second they'd be blowing $12m of cap space on one player in one season.

People aren't really complaining about us not securing players like we did pre-cap. Your example isn't applicable since there were no restrictions back when they signed the players you mentioned. What we're discussing here is that increasing caps are forcing teams to overpay, and some don't have the money to do that. If anything, what you argued about the Wings pre-cap proves us right. We spent big because we could, other teams may not have because they couldn't. With an increasing cap teams are feeling like they can spend money that they don't have. Then you wonder why teams like Phoenix are struggling and needing league help financially. Nothing to do with people complaining that we didn't land a certain player.

Just thought now as I was texting a friend about this, am I right in thinking he can't run to Russia if he gets offered less? I know Hudler did but am I right in thinking that both leagues now recognise each others contracts and so can't sign players who are already contracted to teams in the other league? Please correct me if I'm wrong as not too sure about all these sorts of things.

I think another problem is that the NHL is no where near being the 'biggest' sport in the US, and people may be thinking that a way to combat that is to show everyone that there is a lot of money involved. Encourage more young people to play if they have the potential to earn 'football-type numbers'. Just a thought The shame is that a few organisations out there don't have sound accounting. Yes I'd like to see money go to the players, but if more and more money goes to the players over the owners then we fast get to a situation whereby the owners can't afford to pay the players, then we get teams having to relocate every few years, or file for bankruptcy and require a league bail-out which isn't good for the sport.

I don't know where you're going to find the space to put all these GR players? We're locked at forward positions. On D we'll see Smith and Kindl play more. That's about it. You're overreacting slightly. I understand the D situation isn't good for us at the moment but we're not going to dress an AHL team. As for experience, there are a lot of people on this team that have been to numerous cup finals, Olympic finals, World Championship finals. Still have the core of Dats, Z, Kronner, Bert, Flip (a lot more experienced than I think he gets credit for), now Sammy who has been the distance with us and with Sweden. We lost a lot of experience in Lids, yes, but we've still got lots left. I understand your concerns, but just think it's a little overkill. If it isn't Ken Holland's greatest fan you'll find a lot more money tied up in a lot worse players elsewhere. This isn't the Olympics where you simply dress the best players tell them to play, you build a team for every eventuality which includes role players, veteran talent, kids, and in this era of a growning cap unfortunately some overpaying. But I don't think we're all that bad. You just hate Holland, which you've every right to do, but just think it's a bit unjustified with all that he's done.

Jonathan Ericsson. Knock, knock, it's destiny calling. A quote is a simple thing. It has no physical form but for the movement of lips or the vibration of air, perhaps even the paper or screen on which it is recorded, yet at it's heart it is entirely simple. It is but words strung together. Different words for different means. Poetic words, strong words, abusive words, kind words. Words that question, words that rally, words that challenge or accept. But simple words none the less. There is a famous quote, one that many of you may have seen numerous time before, even in this very place, that consists of words in equation: 'To whom much is given, much is expected'. A sort of Yin and Yang if you will. Action and reaction. Yet still a quote of simple powerlessness. For a quote can only acquire strength and meaning through situation. A moment in time where mere words define action in such a way as to have been meant. To have been written in the stars. Some people in this world believe strongly in things that others may cast aside as legend or myth, believe in structure and purpose against chance and coincidence. Fate. I cannot say I am one of these people, yet I do believe in opportunity to design your own fate. To control a personal destiny if you so choose to take your chances. Jonathan Ericsson? His time is now. I was talking with a friend earlier today about the less than promising situation facing us this year following the departure of Lidstrom and Stuart, and whilst big things were said about the future of Smith and his potential to be a great of the future I couldn't shake the idea within my head that this could be the single greatest opportunity that Ericsson's life will throw his way. Something inside me seems to be wishing him to be the replacement for Lidstrom that we've all been searching for. Wishing for! Yes, I can't deny he's a whipping boy at times, yet I struggle to think of such a time in recent history. Yes, he's made mistakes on the ice, yet again I struggle to think of others who hadn't also. As a player drafted and trained by this single organisation, moulded into the player that they entirely wanted him to be, cannot simply be put down to chance. There must be a reason for his journey through this team. A young Swede who loves the game and has worked hard in the shadow of possibly the greatest defenceman of all time, a countryman and icon whom he wills to be like one day. A player who has grown to be strong defensively, in his own zone, much like the icon he once used to watch. He isn't near that level yet but there are many years left in the tank and he can only move forward. Whereas some see a hole on the blue line in the vacated space left by Lidstrom, a void that cannot be filled entirely but partially patched over in the hope that nobody will notice, I cannot help but see an opportunity. Following a solid season from Ericsson, earning ice time in a variety of situations designed to test his skill and nerve and desire, his "metal", I do not look at the coincidence of an ever-improving player and a newly-retired legend. Yin and Yang again. Two sides to the same coin. I instead look towards the opportunity. A chance for a young player to provide the situation for which the quote can draw meaning. A young player to whom much has been given and now has the chance to pay back in full. In retirement, as in much of his career, Nick Lidstrom is incomparable, yet if it had to be done with this Red Wings roster I see no better candidate than Ericsson. He's not flashy. He's stable. He's not devastating. He's smart. His offensive game lacks a little something but nothing that cannot be gained with practice. He could have the skill set and the personality to be another truly great defenceman in the mould of the Red Wings system, not simply a spare part brought in with the hope that it fits. After all, these can be notoriously hit and miss (White as a potential Rafalski replacement springs to mind). Perhaps nothing of this has sunk in with anyone who happens to read it. Perhaps Ericsson will be nothing more than what I have outlined: a solid, sensible, and smart 2nd pairing D-man. Perhaps my tiredness has got the better of me and has rendered me delirious, yet something inside of me cannot shake this feeling that this year, with a little confidence and a bit of belief, Jonathan Ericsson could start to pay back a little of all that has been invested in him. Oh well, at the very least one can hope.

This is actually a really good point that I've never even considered. A team like the Preds who from what I know have an internal cap so they don't spend money they physically don't have (correct me if I'm wrong please) will be punished for their sensible structuring by not being able to reach the cap floor without falling into financial crisis. I guess we seem to forget at times that Mike Ilitch is financially flush in comparison to a lot. We can afford to always spend up to the cap ceiling

Indeed. Of course it is. It's a way of circumventing the cap, or in simpler terms, "breaking the rules", at least those set out to govern contracts. Essentially. But because there isn't yet a specific rule about it, it isn't technically against the rules. I know players will claim that they sign these contracts because they truly want to spend the rest of their career at an organisation/love the team/have always had a soft spot for X place since they were a child, but you can simply say "well after your 5 year contract is done (say that's MAX length), just resign. Nothing against that and if you really feel all those things towards this team you can have the opportunity to take a cut and help the team further". Then when they say no we'll all know that they just want the money and the security of not necessarily having to be the best in the league to secure big money contracts. They can take their foot off the gas slightly, in other words.

I agree, Ericsson is good value for his play. Was just commenting how Axe mentioned we could do with an upgrade for players like E, or Kronner, or White, then gave Weber as an example.

Smith has great potential I agree, but Kindl HAD it. Things didn't particularly pan out for him, he wasn't all that strong in a lot of his NHL outings this year which was a shame. I don't think he's going to be the Wings premier defenceman for future years. Potential is a funny thing because whilst Kindl had it in spades it wasn't fulfilled and I don't feel confident that it ever will be. Happens with the vast majority of players in most sports, and only the truly great rise to the top. Unfortunately I don't see Kindl doing that. Smith could do though, he just needs to be given a good chance. Kronner is 1st pairing this year without a doubt, and for many years to come. He's got so much better over the years as well in developing from a pure hard hitter into a more solid defensive man. Again like E though, probably needs to score more. Lol love the comment about needing an upgrade to play with them then choosing Weber, an upgrade over most defencemen in the league That would be sweet.

What makes this situation worse is that they weren't the the 2 biggest names out there. Crosby and Stamkos probably were. They were simply the 2 biggest names available. With longer contracts such as this becoming more and more frequent for 'big name stars' the s*** will hit the fan when a UFA class comes along with only mid-level talent (say like last year but worse) and they all get $5-6m contracts because they're the biggest names out there... FOR THAT YEAR. It's a downward spiral that needs to be seriously looked into. On the one hand the NHLPA want to make sure their players are financially stable for life and the NHL may see this sort of thing as an opportunity to promote teams trading rather than simply signing free agents, yet on the other the league are very much risking players not moving at all beyond bottom 6 role players or rookies/prospects. We could end up with a league whereby teams effectively draft their team and have to live with it in the future since there will be no UFAs to sign at the end of the year.

Could very well have something to do with the fact he was a blank slate. Imagine playing your entire life as a forward, play one game on D and the team who drafts you says they like you more as a defenceman. Imagine how that must make you feel about your ability to score/create goals or offense. Dented... Not to mention he has been working harder and harder on this defensive game that perhaps now he's getting to a good stable point, he can refocus on his offensive side of the game and try to become more complete.