GMRwings1983

LOL at him being in the HHOF. Even the Hall wouldn't stoop that low. Richards/Weiss/Modano. Who are we going to retire next?

From looking at the other names in the rafters, outside of Sawchuk, all the other players played either all or almost all of their NHL careers in Detroit. Red Kelly's number isn't retired for the same reason, and he's better than Fedorov was. If Fedorov stayed in Detroit, of course he'd be up there. Everyone knows that. And before we get to Sawchuk, he's a top 5 all-time goalie and the best goalie in Wings history. That's why he gets a pass despite playing for other original 6 teams. So the standard seems to be that you have to be a HOF player and have to play pretty much your entire career in Detroit.

They're not. It depends then on how many players the team wants to retire. Yzerman and Lidstrom are also not on the level of Howe. Likewise, Datsyuk and Osgood aren't on the level of Lidstrom and Yzerman. If we retire Datsyuk and Osgood, 30 years from now we'll be retiring mediocre players who played a long time with the franchise and so on. Howe alone is too narrow a list and too strict a standard. However, we don't need to broaden the list too much. The line has to be drawn somewhere. I don't think there's anything wrong with the line the organization has currently drawn up. My only beef with the Ilitches is the way they treated Aurie's family. Although he wasn't an elite player, taking someone's number down after it was put up is just wrong.

Not sure why that was the organization's philosophy (maybe they thought retiring numbers was stupid, period), but none of those names are debatable. Osgood, Fedorov, Datsyuk and Zetterberg are debatable.

What about the old argument that if you have to debate it, that means that person shouldn't be in the rafters?

I like Glendenning. He's our only right-handed faceoff taker. He can skate well and kills penalties. It is a bit of an overpayment, but Holland is overpaying everybody, so it seems to add up fairly.

This could be good for the NHL marketing wise. A cocky black athlete playing in a US market, instead of in Canada. Unfortunately, Nashville is a small market team and most Americans don't know they even have a hockey team. If he went to Chicago or New York, it'd be an even better move.

Didn't you read my post? I said "tough" and "simple names". Not just "North American"

Not enough tough North American boys with simple names. I knew that draft would fail.

Isn't that overstating it a little?

Probably. But the fact is that Messier won Cups and was in the spotlight, while Yzerman was a star player on a bad team for most of the 80's.

Messier was considered the best hockey player in the world behind Gretzky and Lemieux for much of that time, even despite Yzerman scoring more points. I'm biased towards Yzerman, but the rest of the hockey world has Messier ranked higher than him.

You walked right into it. Same season as Yzerman did it, no less.

What is their ceiling? 30? They're small, soft euro trash. Useless in the playoffs.

Agreed, but I thought the OP was asking about physical talent only.

I'd sign Martin Short over Helm at this point.

Yzerman was an explosive player in his prime. Great speed and hands. He also had a great shot. He was a lot more physically gifted than Lidstrom.

Osgood no. The other three guys have legitimate claims. It depends on how lenient Red Wings ownership is about adding names to the rafters. I would personally retire those numbers, but based on the standard the Wings' brass has set, I likely wouldn't retire the numbers. Osgood is not a HOF player. How can you put him in the rafters with other guys who were much better than him?

Why? Lidstrom had limited physical talent. He wasn't a strong skater and didn't have the hardest shot or fastest hands. Was very light for his height. His greatness is cerebral.

Worse. Zetterberg and Kronwall are going to be even older and were terrible last year. Datsyuk is gone. I don't see Nyquist or Tatar having some kind of resurgence. They've hit their ceiling. The Vanek and Ott moves are decent, but nothing to write home about.

If we're talking about pure physical talent, then I have Fedorov number one. Maybe of any player in NHL history. After him, I'd have to pick Howe, followed by Red Kelly. 4th and 5th would probably be Yzerman and Datsyuk.

Makarov was already past his prime when he entered the NHL. He put up good numbers in a new league at a later age. You have to look at his NHL numbers in context. They were still pretty impressive when you consider the circumstances. If he were 25 when he entered the NHL, then I'd agree that he dropped off fast. He's very similar to Fetisov, in that his NHL career is unfairly judged statistically, since he came into the league at a later age.

Maybe it's weak comparatively, but the last several seasons have been anomalies, in that the generation inducted was the best in hockey history.

Makarov is the best winger of the 1980's. It's not a weak year, unless you started watching hockey in the 90's and never bothered learning about the game's history. Lindros and Vachon, along with Makarov were the best players not in the HHOF. Long time coming for two of them.

Sadly, few of those people remain.