marcaractac

An offense built around Larkin is definitely problematic, as he'd fit more as a matchup center. This is why I'm also on the Berniers train for this draft. Mainly because I doubt we'll be bad enough next year for a top 3 pick.

Holy f*** are you that dense? You realize that every player is different, right? That they all develop at their own pace. Some more quickly than others. Some show far more promise early on than others. Premature in this case is in reference to giving up on a player and preferring to see them traded. Context context context. Maybe it is premature to say Seider will be the next Pronger. I don't actively say it because I think that can very well be the case at some point. That is the context of the Seider situation. Context: "the circumstances that form the setting for an event, statement, or idea, and in terms of which it can be fully understood and assessed." Without context, the songs 'It's Raining Men' and 'Let the Bodies Hit the Floor' would be about the same thing. The basis of your entire argument here is stripping away context completely. I know what words mean, The issue is you take their meaning to their literal extreme.

I literally pointed out an example in that very same post. You're also trying real hard to spin our disagreement on Zadina and agreement on Seider into me being a hypocrite. I think your assessment of Zadina is premature yes. I don't think your assessment of Seider is premature. Seider has yet to show any sign of not living up to expectations. Zadina at one point has, for sure. But he is also showing plenty of growth. There is no hypocrisy there. How can I call your Seider assessment premature when I think it's accurate? That literally makes no sense. We can agree on some s*** and disagree on others. It's not hypocrisy. It's opinions. Today I learn that in order to not be a hypocrite, I have to disagree with you on everything.

Oh certainly if there is better willing to come here than Stevie should go for it. I just think Staal would be a nice fit as a first year partner for Seider, based on what we have on the roster now. Straight up just a one year thing, as I think Staal has a good brain for Seider to pick. Staal has always been known for being one of those extreme attention to details guys. And he is certainly far better than guys like Daley, Ericcson thankfully.

It's funny how you accuse people of putting a spin on what you say, when that is all you do with anyone else. As for Seider, not sure how much clearer I can spell it out that I mostly agree with your assessment on him, therefore have no reason to tell you to "pump any brakes". But you keep ignoring that fact because it is your own spin on my takes. That makes you a hypocrite. Genuine curiosity: Why do you think Raymond is a 'Teir 2' prospect and not a potential superstar?

I hope Raymond makes the roster next season along with Seider.

I wouldn't be against Staal sticking around on a cheap one year contract. He'd be a good veteran presence for Seider.

Can you have a debate without crying about strawman? Can you have a debate without thinking you're being policed? The paranoia is strong on 4/20 I guess. You've called Zadina one dimensional countless times. That's the aspect of your assessment of him I disagree with. I'd agree that it's likely he'll obtain a 60 point pace in the future. I just don't think a 60+ point winger with a strong defensive game is a complementary player. If you think he is, fine. I'm not here to tell you how to think. I'm here to state my own opinions. You think that is a reason to trade him. I think that scoring pace plus the continued development of his defensive game is reason to absolutely keep him around. That's a winning brand of hockey. If he was currently 25/26 years old? Different story. You keep pushing this Seider s*** on me as if I'm being some sort of hypocrite. Seider has exceeded expectations at every level thus far and has shown no reason to doubt his potential. If he struggled at any point along the way and someone s*** on him, I'd stick up for him just as quick. Maybe, just maybe, when someone doesn't mention one of your opinions, it's because they more or less agree with it and see no point in turning it into a debate. What a concept.

I would, yes. Because you only seem to operate in extremes. The reality is somewhere in the middle. Throughout ~75 NHL games, his 2-way game is developing nicely. He has shown skill with his playmaking ability, but seems to have lost confidence in his shooting. The hope is that part of his game will continue to develop as well. His shooting % is half of what it normally is, even in relation to his NHL experience before this season. I think there is a good chance that'll come back up. You say Zadina is more of a passenger who needs others to do the work for him. I see someone who is really good at setting up plays, but has nobody to finish them. I think Zadina would be best with more of a playmaking center (not Larkin's string point) and a sniper on the other wing. I believe that is the type of line that would bring out the best in all 3 players. In the end, luckily Zadina is young enough to have a chance to keep growing his game.

I did address your assessment of Zadina. It's premature and wrong. He's played ~75 and has shown plenty of growth. He will continue to grow over the next 75 games and beyond. That's the part you're too short-sighted to see. The evidence does not support your assessment. If Seider showed growing pains, and stick up for him too. If Seider is your standard of players to not trade, we'll end up with 2-3 core pieces over the next 10 years and nobody to play with them.

People assess 18 year old players by their potential, not what they can do in the NHL right then and there. The same applies when assessing a player at 21. Nobody says you cannot assess players at 21. We're simply saying your assessment of Zadina is very premature. PLENTY of players have gone down a similar path breaking into the NHL. Top 5 picks included. It's not that you can assess players and nobody else can. Your assessments are simply one-dimensional.

If Zadina is still producing similar offense when he hits 24/25, fine. But the kid is 21. Lets see what we have first. Because if he does grow into a 60 point winger and continues to improve defensively, we probably wanna keep him around. Mantha was traded because at his age, he is what he is. An established top six winger. An excellent addition to a contender who has aged out of our rebuild. The trade works because we get a player who can make up for most of Mantha's lost offense. Not to mention that Mantha was still an AHLer at Zadina's current age.

Not sure you even know what that means at this point. The kid has left Hudler in the dust as far as play without the puck goes.

Hell lets just become a farm system for the rest of the league while we're at it.

We get it. If a kid isn't an impact player right out of the draft, they will always suck.

Oh no worries, I was mostly just taking a jab at Zadina haters hahaha While true, at least with Bert, he has been good over multiple seasons and is not just riding on one facade of a breakout year haha

Anyone who has actually watched Zadina play this season knows his spot on the team is about as safe as it gets. He's been extremely impressive despite not yet breaking out offensively. AA would likely still be in Detroit had he had the same work ethic and attention to detail on both ends of the ice.

Things are clearly, finally, headed in the right direction. Not sure what mess you speak of. Almost all bad contracts are off the books, Yzerman has insane cap flexibility going forward, he has stockpiled picks, had two good drafts to stock the prospect pool, and has used cap space to take on contracts for more picks. The right moves are being made and the team is playing their asses off every game. They are literally on a 9-7-1 run. With this roster. It's almost as if the team is well coached as well. The Buffalo Sabres are a mess. The Detroit Red Wings are not.

I just look at how much improvement there has been after one season of Yzerman in charge and realize all is well.

This is why I can see either scenario playing our for Bert. Yes, he is 26. But he is built for playoff hockey. Another key is that he can very well play on the third line if need be. In the end, I feel Bert is the one "older" player that has the best chance on seeing this rebuild through. So while Bert will be on the wrong side of 30 when the team contends again, it's not like we absolutely cannot have a player older than 30 on the team. He can be that Dan Cleary type of veteran role player. That is unless an offer is made that Yzerman simply cannot refuse.

Every team is gonna protect someone who is "expendable" though. And little talent in the majors is kind of normal during a rebuild. We're fortunate that we don't have to protect most of our young players like Zadina, Seider, and Raymond. Expansion drafts are the perfect time to be in rebuild mode to be honest.

In all fairness, the Mantha trade was a hockey trade that also got the Wings picks. It would have been completely different had Mantha been moved for only futures. We could see guys like Fabbri get moved in the next couple of years. Maybe, maybe not. I think Bert is just too playoff built to part with for the time being. Larkin is the captain and the veteran leader that will be counted on to help young players joining the team in the coming years. Other first rounders like Zadina, Seider, Raymond are likely untouchable at this point due to their age and potential. So I'm guessing we see a combination of some roster turnover and building with what we have. I don't foresee any trades happening that sets back the current on ice product. Mantha is a special case because he just didn't perform the way he could all the time and he was the oldest of our young core. He was always engaged when good things happen, but not so much during tough stretches. That combined with a can't refuse offer led to him being moved. I do not think that will become a regular thing. Sure Bert is the same age, but the guy also brings it 100% of the time and is just one of those guys who seems built for playoff hockey.

I mean, the team isn't gonna lose just to improve their draft lottery odds. When the team reaches a point where a top 6 center is all that is missing, that'll be the time Yzerman pursues one via trade or UFA. Not every piece of the eventual contending team is gonna come from the draft. Also, not every important piece is gonna come from the first round either. Great teams find the occasional gem in the 2nd and 3rd rounds as well.

100%. I also feel Seider will have an immediate positive impact as well. Kind of hoping we keep Staal around for one more year as I think he'd be a good partner/mentor for him. Keeping our goalie tandem together is also another key to success next season.

Forwards: Larkin Bertuzzi Vrana Fabbri Rasmussen Erne Smith Defenders: Hronek Stetcher Lindstrom Goalies: Greiss I have Svech as the odd man out because I just don't see him overtaking anyone in the pipeline for a top 9 wing role. Smith is a much more suitable option on the fourth line than Svech would be. Cholowski is the odd man out on defense unless she shows something real soon. Greiss is the obvious choice in goal, as Bernie can be re-signed afterwards.