marcaractac

If that isn't fuel enough for Cholowski to earn his spot, it's probably for the best he seeks an opportunity elsewhere. As of today, I'd protect Lindstrom over Cholo.

I honestly think the kid could use a full AHL season. He hasn't exactly lit it up there yet either. Once he is too good to play down there, then call him up.

If Cholowski wants a roster spot, he has to earn it and keep it. He has yet to do the latter.

Gee, it's almost as if nobody, including the professionals, can reliably predict how 18 year old kids will turn out at the NHL level; assuming they ever make it.

He also had elite grey hair

If one has to pick and choose elite aspects of a players game such as having elite skating, or having elite vision, or ever having to use the term borderline elite period, odds are said player just straight up isn't elite. The best baseball players are considered 5-tool players for a reason. They excel at all aspects. That's elite. When determining if a player is elite or not, it should be trying to find reasons they are not elite. Not trying to find reasons why they are.

B as in will likely be a reliable middle six player who plays in the NHL for a lot of years. Likely a career 3rd liner, but will have 2 or 3 seasons in his prime where he puts up second line #'s. I'm thinking Kris Draper-level. Draper was a pretty damn important player for a lot of years.

Yes, in relation to peewee players, I'd likely be elite haha. I'd say Veleno is one of our B-teir prospects

I was referring to the specific case of Veleno, not as some all encompassing rule. He fell because of questions about his ceiling. GMs didn't see elite potential there. In this case, they were correct. Which does not mean that Veleno will never ever make some GMs regret passing on him, because he could. I don't disagree that Veleno could possibly be a really good 2C some day. I just think using the word elite in terms of position is silly. If we can throw the word elite around so loosely, I'm an elite hockey player at the pee wee level. It makes sense to be the among the best at your position. But 2C is not a position, it's a spot in the lineup. You're an elite center or you're not. And no, I'm not saying you think Veleno will be an elite center. We agree there. The figure skating thing was a joke. Darren Helm is an elite skater as well.

Dude I did not say Elite players cannot be found beyond the first round. I'm simply pointing to the fact that Veleno fell in the draft due to concerns about his ceiling at the time. GMs did not see Elite potential there and passed. In hindsight, they were probably right about the elite aspect. But possibly wrong about how good he could possibly be. Sure, you can say all (most) NHLers are elite hockey players. But we are not talking about players relative to the entire planet. We are talking about players specifically in the NHL. So in relation to all NHL players, only the best of the best can be Elite. There is no such thing as an elite 4th line player. It would simply be a player on a deep team playing a position lower than he is capable of. Figure skaters are elite skaters too. So by default are we calling them borderline elite NHLers? Elite players have the total package and dominate their peers. The cream rises to the top. And maybe we not determine the best player available at the next draft before we even have the next hockey season? That kind of only works when generational talent (or close to it) is involved. Not the case this time.

Oh I agree Veleno will never be Elite. If he had Elite upside he would have never fallen to Detroit in the draft. Larkin will never be Elite either. He will be really good for a lot of years. But Elite? Nah. Veleno will likely provide a lot of important minutes down the middle for the Wings. But yeah, the word Elite gets thrown around far too casually these days. Between the last two drafts and the next, we need two or three Elite guys to emerge in the worst way. There is some potential on the Blueline and wing, but God damn we need a center with the first round pick next year.

As far as players I've mentioned before goes, all I really mean is that they are really good, ideal 2C players. If there were such thing as an elite 2C, it would be them. But there is no such thing as an elite 2C, because as we agreed, being elite has nothing to do with lineup placement. When Malkin is looked back upon down the road, nobody is gonna mention the fact he played on the "second line". He'll simply be known as an elite NHL center. Likewise with Tavares and Draisaitl. In the end, what bums me the f*** out is that the Wings currently have ZERO elite players. While I expect that to change when guys like Seider and Raymond become impact NHLers, right now we have none. Let's hope Seider can become Konstantinov but 5" taller.

Every player is of a talent level where you could project what their ideal position would be on an ideal roster based on their career production. On stacked teams, many players play below their capabilities. On s***ty teams, many players have to play above their capabilities. Less than one minute of career average ice time separates Crosby and Malkin. Both guys play ~20 minutes per game. Both players get first line minutes. So yeah, you look at the lineup sheet and you see Malkin on the "second line". But their "second line" plays just as much as their first. In the end, it's a silly thing to debate, just like calling players an "elite 2C" is silly. in the end. A player is either elite or not, regardless of where they play. If a team has the depth to play elite players on second lines or second pairings, they just straight up got it good.

The three players you mentioned are elite 1C. They play 2C because of the circumstances of their roster. They are special cases, and very much not the norm across the league. I'd consider guys like Backstrom, Krejci, or Schenn actual elite second line centers. Having said that, I think Veleno tops out as a solid middle-six center. We still need another center of at LEAST Larkin's calibre. We're in a good spot if Veleno is a full time 3C due to the roster having two better centers. Veleno will certainly be a guy who can move up in the lineup when there are injuries, however.

Vatenen has never hit 40 points in his entire NHL career. I mean, he was a 40 point dman in the AHL, so i'll give you that. It was a known bad trade at the time, and it looks even worse now. Especially considering the Ducks were well into their decline at this point and should have been hanging on to their top prospects. Marchessault scored 30 in his first full NHL season. He was only flirting with making the NHL full time before that. You make it sound as if he was some useless guy who came out with one banger of a year. Smith had a down year on a bad team. It happens. It's not the fact that they lost Smith to Vegas. It's not the fact that they lost Marchessault to Vegas. It's that they lost Smith AND Marchessault to Vegas. Florida could have done nothing and just lost one of these guys. They traded Smith to ensure they drafted Marchessault because they were afraid to lose ******* Jason Demers. Who they pretty well immediately traded for Jamie McGinn.... So please, continue to bless us all with your knowledge of how giving up Smith and Marchessault for Jamie McGinn is hindsight. Hindsight is William Karlsson coming out scoring the way he did in Vegas. Theodore, Marchessault, and Smith? Not so much.

Anaheim traded Theodore to keep Vatanen. Let that sink in. Everyone knew Theodore's potential at the time of that trade. Not only that, they traded Vatanen that same damn season. Florida mismanaged their roster so badly that they gave up Smith AND Marchessault. Gotta imagine teams will be more aware of this type of s*** when it comes to Seattle.

So you're literally saying Flip is our worst center at faceoffs, and we should let him do so on the first line because of that?

Filppula and Fabbri on the top line is a great idea if we wanna see a repeat of last year's goal differential.

One year is not an indication of a trend... Fabbri shouldn;t touch center in the top 6 at this stage. If he dominates center on the third line, try him on the second line. No sane hockey mind would ever start Fabbri as the first line center. If Larkin was not on this team, Fabbri wouldn't start as the #1 center. Glendening would play 1C at this point before Fabbri. At least he can match up against high end players defensively. And for the record, Fabbri did not have a breakout season. He simply matched his production from the season before his injuries. AKA he has finally become the player he was 4 years ago. Haven't you heard? Flip is clearly our top line winger

You must be really fun at parties.

Damn, that Fabbri contract sure f***ed up the Mantha deal

It sucks, but the NHL team is so small they aren't lying when they say they don't have the resources. It's an afterthought franchise after FIFA and Madden. It was the same deal the year the PS4/XBONE came out. Had to wait the following year for next gen hockey.

NHL 21 is not getting a PS5 release sadly. NHL 22 will be the first.

Not the worst idea at all. Bonuses to keep him motivated to perform and maintain trade value.

Absolutely, but he has since said he'd be willing to go the one year deal route. That's when I was like f***, hope Yzerman is working some magic here. I do think he is waiting to see what happens with next season starting.