dobbles

he would make sense in terms of being one of the few top pairing guys that would be available. slotting him in there would really give us better depth. as others have said, he would probably look a lot better on this team in this system than he does in calgary. it is funny that so many are against him. remember the summer of 2009 when he was just as big a fish as suter was this summer??? with that said, i would worry that he has regressed because of his big contract, playing on a crappy team/org, or just not having his edge anymore. he would probably require a top forward like franzen/filppula to get him. that or multiple top end assets. that might be the tipping point for me. if it could be done with a reasonable trade, it might be worth it. i am not too worried about his contract as we do have lots of room this year and he would only be signed for 1 more season. overall i doubt it happens. even though calgary fans detest bouwmeester, its not like calgary has many other quality top 4 D. giordano was the only other D that even made it past 15 points. though they did pick up wideman so that helps them a bit. even with the bad contract i just dont see calgary making a move. and it doesnt look like calgary has really ever committed to a rebuild, so thats why i think it would take a quality roster player going there to make the deal happen.

you're entirely missing the point... what folks are saying is that teams shouldnt be allowed to circumvent the rules of the cap. many posters are talking about these contracts being ok because thats the risk the gm's are taking. but unfortunately under the current CBA, there is no risk at all. why? because even if you sign a terrible contract, you can just bury it. the pronger deal in philly was terrible. but philly has just put him on LTIR for like 13 seasons in a row and avoivded any cap penalty... the huet contract by the hawks was terrible. but chicago just moved him to europe for several seasons and avoided any penalty. there are many other examples of bad contracts getting moved to the ahl, europe, or mysteriously going on LTIR. no to mention the new fad of front loading long contracts to keep the cap hit down and then just anticipating the player will retire before the end of the contract and avoid having to deal with the cap hit the last few years. thats one of the areas i think a lot of folks want to see cleaned up. sure, its not realistic to expect contracts to pay the exact same every year of the deal. but to have a contract pay 14 million for one of the seasons and 1 million for a later season. thats just silly. those are the loopholes that people want closed. fans want accountability and fairness. they want to know that if minnesota is dumb enough to commit to 2 guys for 13 years, that they will be stuck with them good or bad. instead, its just a game of bending the rules. its about as bad as the nba and all their dumb rules and everyone trying to trade expiring contracts.

people continue to over react.... the wings arent rebuilding. the roster is simply changing. lidstrom wasnt going to be around forever. he is the only player that cant be replaced. white was servicable in rafalskis place. quincey is slated to replace stuart. will they be exactly the same? of course not. (also note, i too thought quincey was terrible after the deadline, but i think he will be better going forward) every year, fans are clamoring for the wings to get younger and try out new players. well some of that is finally happening. thats not rebuilding. thast reloading. its not about parity or finding gems in the draft or anything else. the wings lost earlier than expected in the playoffs; s*** happens. this year they ran into a hot goalie. its the same thing that happened when they hit kiprusoff in 04 and giguere in 03. people think because we lost in the first round that suddenly the wings run of success is over.... let me remind you of something: after winning back to back cups in 97 and 98, the wings won only 2 playoff series the next 3 years. after winning the cup in 02, the wings won only 1 playoff series the next 3 years. after winning the cup in 08, the wings won only 2 playoff series the next 3 years.

i think a development only mentality is counter productive in the long run for a couple reasons. first, as mentioned, its helpful to have a couple vets around to provide guidance and leadership for a team. and the other part is that having quality veteran players around helps the team be more successful and that being in a winning environment is beneficial for the prospects. (however, as you state, GR has been poor for several years with some of these veteran guys so maybe they arent helping that much!)

he was 17 playing in the mens league. (the 2nd tier league i believe, but still a much more mature league than a lot of the guys in the chl leagues)

eakin and a 2nd i believe. glad to see ribeiro go to the east. dude is a giant ******.

personally, i don't think that his lack of size and strength were significant liabilities this year. sure, he gets muscled off the puck a decent amount. but think through the season, and i don't recall any significant stretch where that was a problem with that line. for the first quarter or third of the season it was definitely Z who was killing plays and i think once he got it together, that line was very dangerous, and aside from being a huge source of goals was also one of the best lines at generating chances and keeping puck posession. to me, it was franzens lack of effort that caused lost battles, clearys bad knee that caused dead end plays in the zone, and berts lack of creativity as he glides around the zone with one hand on his stick doing nothing effective. those are the guys that hurt the offense. sure hudler has his shortcomings. if he didnt, he would be an 8 mil a year top line player. but to me, he was still a very effective player and would be a solid contributor next year if brought back at a decent salary. his line was a good line and to me its the top line that needs redone and the bottom 6 that needs sorted out and toughened up.

i would imagine you will get a bunch of minuses, but i actually do agree with your premise. i had hoped to see him stay at least under 2 mil. but when i do think about it, i think its a fair price for what he brings. i think he was a steal for what he made last year and this contract just brings him up to snuff. the reason i find it unfortunate though is that to win a cup you really need to have several value contracts. right now i just see helm as a neutral contract. though i am hoping in the last 2 years he becomes a steal again.

while there is merit to what you are saying, i would contend it only has a small impact in this case. all players were top 6 guys all year. all the guys had other great linemates and were often targeted by other teams as lines that needed shut down. additionally, another thing that would need to be taken into consideration is east vs. west. while i certainly dont want to open a can of worms about which is better, its hard to deny that all the offensive firepower was in the east. 9 of the top 10 goal scorers and 9 of the top 10 point getters were in the east. goal scoring by east teams was in their favor 3480-3264. the top 3 scoring teams were in the east and the bottom 4 were in the west. so really stats should skew towards guys like parise and semin. in the bigger picture, all stats need context and no 1 statistic is perfect. but to me the stats looking at how many goals per minute have value. is helps people to remember that hudler and franzen have value and that parise isn't going to suddenly solve all of our goal scoring problems.

i agree totally. i guess our middle of the road attitude isnt as fun as all the hyperbole that gets thrown around in the thread! to me, i would go a little higher. i would be happy with something as long as it was under 4. to me, 3.5 or 3.75 is still a good number. but like you said, that still probably isn't enough to keep him. heck, look at good ole ville leino... he only put up 53 points after that great playoff and that got him a 4.5 average hit. i think thats a pretty comparable contract because while hudler didnt have a great playoff run to up his value, at least he has more of a track record. leino got that big contract after only 1 quality nhl season...

at first i felt like it was a bit high, but considering how many bad contracts are going to happen in a couple weeks, i guess it is good to put it into context. i am also happy with the 4 year term. i think that makes the higher cap hit worth it. glad to have him on board for 4 more years!

i wasnt saying the statistic sold him short, but that other posters sold him short even though his even strength production was better than any of those other 3 guys. like you, i dont go so far to imply hudler is as good as parise, i just think a lot of people keep dogging him when he had a pretty darn good year this year.

if you look at only even strength, its: Semin scored a goal every 58 mins of ice-time this year Parise scored a goal every 63 mins of ice-time this year Hudler scored a goal every 47 mins of ice-time this year Franzen scored a goal every 63 mins of ice-time this year while any statistic gives only a partial view, i find it funny that hudler was the most productive scorer 5v5 out of the 4. sure it all depends on linemates and other factors, but i just find it funny people continue to sell him short. (pun intended)

i am not pro hudler by any means, especially if he wants too much money. but the dude was a great contributor last year. only 20 forwards in the entire league scored more even strength goals than he did. http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.htm?fetchKey=20122ALLFAFALL&sort=evenStrengthGoals&viewName=goals to me that is a VERY important stat. even strength scoring is where you really make a difference. sure hudler has his flaws, but so does every single other potential replacement. i would love to see parise signed as his replacement. it would be sweet. but its not a likely scenario. so if it doesn't happen i would welcome hudler back at a moderate salary increase.

would like to point out that 12 teams make the playoffs, not 6. however, the reason i quoted is because i actually agree that football is tough. the regular season is so short that 1 or 2 games means everything. and one and done in the playoffs is a scary thing. its the one sport where the best team doesnt always win. look at the packers the last 2 seasons. 2 years ago they stunk up most of the regular season and then go on a hot run at the end to win the super bowl. then the next season they are great most of the year and get bounced in their first game. i just think the shortened schedule makes it tougher to predict who will win. if we are talking about the pure physical grind then obviously its probably hockey. the schedule is more grueling and the game is just as physically demanding. also, the stat that redwingmachine mentioned is perhaps the most overlooked thing about football. the ball is rarely in play even though most fans think its the most grueling and physical game out there.

you aren't understanding the point he was trying to make. what he is saying is that it was hard to get any value for his rights because everyone knew he had a short list of teams. the reason teams will give more for negotiating rights is they know they are competing against many other teams and getting that exclusive window is important. but since the sharks knew they had a high probability of signing him regardless, they had little motivation to give up anything of value just for the chance to sign him now instead of july first. the most likely scenario was that they got word that anaheim wanted to offer him a contract so they gave up an asset to make sure anaheim never got the chance...

whats so bothersome? he was working under the assumption he might need another top 4 D. quincey had established himself as that the last couple seasons. in his mind, quincey was a reasonable replacement for stuart. i don't think that was too far fetched when the move was made. (with how he looked once he got here it does bring that into question) replacing stuart isn't the problem, its trying to get suter as a replacement for nick that is the key.

thats terrible. now all the STH's of the various teams will just buy tickets to re-sell them. and instead of the ticket revenue actually going to the teams involved it goes to a bunch of scalpers. for a game like this, whoever purchases the tickets should be required to use them.

coming into this season, quick wasnt really one of those goalies either. it will take time to decide if he is finally playing up to potential this year or overplaying his abilities this year.

come back in a year or two and see how the kings are doing before worrying about if the wings need to be more like them... they have been on a great playoff run. however, it really helps when a defensive team like them gets to play totally s*** offensive teams in the playoffs. all they have to do is grind out a goal or two and lock it down and let quick look amazing. (and yes i know they played the canucks who were a top offensive team, but they were also missing their best goal scorer most of the series) not to mention, when you have a goalie playing lights out it masks a LOT of mistakes in other areas. so now all of a sudden their role players look amazing. but do you guys really think that long term guys like lewis, stoll, king, etc are guys that will continue to contribute like this? fact of the matter is that the kings are a team that won less than half of their games this year. they were next to last in goals. they are on a hot streak thanks to an amazing goalie. they are the 2004 calgary flames all over again with a few more sexy names on the roster.

some terrible officiating as usual... doan gets tossed because lewis intentionally turned his back to him at the last second... then brown gets a strong shot to the knee and gets called for diving???

the wings definitely made him look good. thats not to say he isnt a very good goalie though. the yotes have crashed the net better and also had a better transition game. someone mentioned the wings always pulling up on the rush and setting up, i thought that was a great point. in addition to that deficiency, the yotes have also just been better at outlet passes and stretch plays and turnovers on the forecheck to generate chances. i have no idea on the official stats, but it seemed like odd man chances favored the preds like 50-3 in our series. i think the yotes probably have more odd man rushes in 2 games than we did in 5.

ditto on the fair enough. bottom line for me is this: we need more from the guy that is our top winger and goal scorer. so either what can we do to put him in a position to be more productive, or how can we move him to make our team better?

that aint my style. the only reason i mentioned that blues game is it was about the only one down the stretch he impacted the scoreboard but in my eyes even that game was pretty poor. and considering there was much debate after that single game about franzen getting into playoff mode, i figured lots of people might want to point to that game as an example. my problem with franzen is two fold. first he is one of those guys that looks super lazy on the ice. sure looks can be deceiving, but i think based off how many other people feel that way, there might be something to the sentiment. it pains me that the dude has so much size and skill and plays like a disinterested girl... the other is that he signed that giant contract and now has to live up to it. he led the team in goals but was only 4th in even strength goals. jiri hudler had 5 more even strength goals yet he makes like a third of the salary and is hated by most of the site. franzens role is to score goals. and he couldnt even hit 30? thats despressing as a fan. edit: and to your point about potential, sure he still has some. but he appears to have regressed. two poor playoffs in a row. (though he was injured last year right?) and 2 straight years under 30 goals. his peak was 34 goals. do you genuinely expect he has enough potential to best that in the coming years?

i hope he can make an impression on the team in the preseason. he has played 3 full years in grand rapids now and i fear there isnt much left for him there to learn. additionally, i still think he has enough upside that he needs to continue to be able to develop. i think the problem we have is we are afraid to lose any assets regardless of how minor they are. so what if we lose a guy like emmerton or andersson? we need to be willing to put non exempt guys on waivers if there are better options.