Buppy

Which 4th liners? I'd take him over Draper, but that's not an option. I'd take him over Maltby and Downey, but they're not on the team. One of Miller or Ritola already needs to be moved. (Miller hopefully) I wouldn't want to lose Ritola for someone like Asham. Nor would I give up Eaves, Helm, or Abby. And besides, your argument has been that we should have gotten Asham instead of Modano, so the 4th liners have nothing to do with that. Asham is 32, he probably only has a few productive years left. He doesn't really have the talent to stick around all that long, unless you want a repeat of Draper/Maltby and keep him around past his usefulness. And again, he's not so special a player that we can't get someone similar next year. Hell, he'll be a FA next summer himself. Again, we have plenty of forwards to handle defensive duty. We have an excellent checking line already in Abby-Helm-Eaves. Our top line will feature two of the best defensive forwards in the game. Flip and Franzen are solid defensively. Move Cleary to that line and you have a third high-end defensive unit if we need it. Modano is not a bad defensive forward either. Asham is not so prolific a hitter that the team will suffer for not having him. The difference between Asham and Modano amounts to around 1 hit per game. Hardly worth talking about, especially when we'd be sacrificing scoring to get it. GMR's argument is that Asham is a better 'fit' than Modano. That's where the comparisons are coming from. And yeah, Asham at $700k is a fine deal, and most GMs would like it. But most teams don't already have 15 forwards. We do. If we had an open spot on the roster and passed on Asham to negotiate with Maltby this thread would have a point. But that's not the case. We need to get rid of one forward already, our regular lineup is already set (or will be once we get Abby signed). I wouldn't take Asham over any one of the 12 forwards projected to be our regulars. Taking him over Draper isn't an option, and I would rather see what Ritola can do before we give him up. That's 14 forwards, no room for Asham. Worst case scenario is we keep Miller over Ritola for the last forward spot. I suppose I'd rather have Asham, but not so much that I'd really care about it. I didn't even want Modano in the first place and still don't really care about him. (Though I admit it's grown on me a bit, from all the optimism around here.) My main point was that this is a silly thing to complain about, since it would be a largely irrelevant move. Best case would be we lose out on a little scoring, gain a little hitting and fighting. Pretty meaningless tradeoff to get upset over.

How about trying to explain what he offers, aside from fighting, that Modano or our current 4th line doesn't. How would having Asham instead of Modano make this team better? We have about 7 or 8 forwards that are better defensively already. We could have three lines that could function as shutdown checking lines. So what exactly would Asham offer, aside from fighting? One extra hit per game?

Hmm... Tell me honestly, would this thread even exist if Asham didn't fight? What 'dimension' does he have that Helm, Abby, Eaves, and Miller do not, aside from fighting? What would Asham offer, aside from fighting, that we don't already have plenty of? And you're not arguing that he's a better fit than some 4th liners. You're arguing that he's a better fit than Modano. I for one disagree. I think Modano is the one who offers a dimension that really improves this team. Asham offers nothing other than mediocre fighting ability and a skillset similar to Miller. I don't see how he makes the team better at all, much less being so much better that it's worth getting upset over.

There isn't any rule that says the third line is a checking line. We have a team loaded with defensively responsible forwards. Zetterberg has been the forward typically used against the top opposing line for years. Our 4th line is already a checking line. We have plenty of balance. I wouldn't say Asham is any better defensively than Modano anyway. You only want him because he fights anyway.

So you're basically saying that you would rather have Asham than Modano. Modano significantly improves the 3rd line and probably the 2nd PP unit, where as Asham just offers pretty average fighting ability. Certainly not a good enough fighter to protect anyone or 'keep the flies off' or whatever it is people think enforcers do. Doesn't strike me as particularly logical. Looks more like someone just wants to see more fights.

Draper was already signed. Nothing could have been done about it this year. Neither Maltby nor Downey will be regular members of this team. At most they will get contracts to play in GR. We already have to get rid of one of Miller, Ritola, Eaves, Helm, or Abby. So to sign Asham, we'd have to lose a 2nd (or not sign Modano, who adds much more to the team). Then, to have him actually play, you have to take a 3rd out of the lineup. Not saying Asham would make the team worse (unless you take him over Modano), but he wouldn't make the team any better either. That's why I think it's stupid. It's irrelevant.

Modano adds more to the team than Asham could. Nor is Asham so special of a player that we won't have plenty of similar options next year if Modano retires. And what 4th liners should we not have signed? No one but you has said anything about Maltby, he's not signed, and will not be on the team next year except maybe in GR for an injury call-up. Draper was already under contract and on the cap anyway. Then we have Helm, Abby, Eaves, Miller, and Ritola. Five players for four spots. So you have to get rid of two of them to make room for Asham. Asham isn't even that good of a fighter. Turn on some MMA if you're that desparate. This is a stupid complaint.

I think it's more a case of us having enough (too many even) 4th liners already. We DO prioritize skill over everything else, but we also usually keep a spot reserved for a tough guy. This year, all those spots were filled already. Nothing to get upset about. We have a solid 4th line, maybe one of the best in the league. Asham wouldn't have made us any better.

With Hank, I think having two down seasons in a row hurt him. Remember he only had 73 points two years ago. Not that I agree with the ranking, but I think I can understand the reasoning. This list is better than Eva's at least.

Pisani averaged more ice time than both Miller and Eaves. And while Edmonton was certainly terrible, neither Eaves nor Miller were playing with particularly great linemates all the time. May, Maltby, Draper, Helm, Abby, Williams, Leino...not that much different from Horcoff, O'Sullivan, Moreau, Gagner, etc. Miller may have played a bit with the likes of Flip and Cleary, but you're acting like he spent the year on the top line with Pav and Hank or something. And I'm not sure what kind of math you're doing, but Pisani was on the ice for 10 PPGA in 91:42 (~6.5/60 min). Eaves was 13 in 147:54 (5.3), Miller was 7 in 120:31 (3.6). Pisani is 33, hasn't played more than 56 games in the past three seasons. He had one decent season and a great playoff, and has been going downhill ever since. Miller is 26, coming off his first full season in the NHL, and makes only $150k more. Eaves is also 26, just had somewhat of a bounce-back season after two down years, and makes only $250k more. Not saying Pisani is terrible, or that it isn't a good signing. He's fine for a 4th line role. But I'd much rather have the younger guys without potentially problematic diseases, even if they do make a little more money.

Sergei took a lot of heat for his lack of goals in 96 and 99 (especially since those were two of Yzerman's best years goal-wise). I think the Lemieux hit on Draper took a lot of heat off everyone in 96 (Primeau did get a lot after he was traded), and Ranford got a ton in 99 (though not as much as he deserved), but I think Fedorov can still be called a scapegoat. Not really one of the biggest, but still a scapegoat.

" Other penalties, as outlined in Article 26 of the CBA, include fines against the club and/or the player, reducing the club's payroll for the following season, forfeiting draft picks, forfeiting games affected by the circumvention ..." Technically, Chicago could lose Hossa, get fined for an amount close to his cap hit, lose some of the draft picks they gained in their firesale, AND lose their Cup win. Never happen of course, but like fantasizing about winning the lottery, it's fun to imagine.

Equally ridiculous. Like Eva said, you can't really blame the way the team plays on the goalie, especially in Cujo's case when he played very well. We were putting up 30-35+ shots a game, allowing ~20-30. Those aren't numbers suggesting the team was in a defensive shell. Likewise, a goalie that needs to be protected doesn't post a .935 save percentage. 6 goals on 171 shots in 4 games against Anaheim. 3 goals (shutout twice) on 127 shots in 4 losses to Calgary. In the last two games against Calgary, Cujo made 63 of 65 saves. Blaming Jospeh at all for those losses is retarded.

Ridiculous. We scored 6 goals in 4 games (+ another game worth of OT) against Anaheim that year. You say you're not blaming him then turn around and say he couldn't handle the pressure? Of course Cujo couldn't handle the expectations if those expectations were retardedly unrealistic. Giguere made 60-some saves in the first game. That's what cost us the series. He got to us in that game, and the offense was never the same. The team was out of sync, either throwing weak perimeter shots or trying to do too much. Cujo may have let in a couple goals he could have stopped, but he also made several saves that could have, and probably should have, been goals. Hasek was far from great against Vancouver, got pulled in a game against St.Louis, and had a few mediocre games against Colorado and Carolina. The only real difference was Hasek had an offense scoring 3-4+ goals instead of 0-2 like Cujo normally had.

Wishful thinking. Kopy will be on the 2nd line...

I agree. Scapegoat probably isn't the right word for Cujo. I never got the sense that people really blamed him for the losses. But I do think he took some completely unfair criticism. Even though Cujo played very well, Giguere was better. After Hasek had set a shutout record the previous year, and with the team we had, I think a lot of fans had unfair expectations, like some people expected him to be perfect. So getting outplayed by Giggy drew unwarranted criticism, but I don't think there was so much that you can really call him a scapegoat. In '04, pretty much everyone I know praised Cujo as our best player in the Calgary series. I can't even blame management too much for the situation with Hasek. Hasek was one of the best goalies of all time. It would have been stupid not to give him a chance. Cujo shouldn't have been sent to GR, but I don't think it should have caused the bad blood that it did. Maybe there was something behind the scenes I don't know about. Either way, I don't think it had any effect on Cujo's playoffs, or the result that year. Nor do I think we could have re-signed Cujo after the lockout anyway, so I don't see what harm was caused.

I think 'other variables' was the premise. It's not really a point that needed to be made, since as you said most people already know that hitting does not mean winning. There may be a vocal crowd that preaches hitting an aggressiveness, but I think it's meant more in a 'play harder' way then a 'that's the key to victory' way, if you get my meaning. People also complain about turnovers, slowness, dumb penalties, missing open shots, etc. I'm sure if you asked people in Columbus what kind of players they'd want to add, more skill would be a priority. That doesn't mean they shouldn't expect their current players to play harder, finish their checks, clear the crease, etc... All in all, a pretty dumb article.

Assuming Ritola and Kindl play this year, they would not be rookies next year. And having 3-4 rookies in lesser roles isn't a bad thing. I'd expect a top 4 defenseman if Nick retires, but other than that it looks fine. It really depends a lot on this season, but as of now, I would expect Draper and Ozzie to retire after this year. Miller and Meech I expect will be gone by the end of camp this year, Ericsson, Howard, and Abby all to be back for 2011-12. That gives us: Pav, Hank, Homer, Bert, Flip, Mule, Huds, Cleary, Helm, Abby, Ritola (11) at forward Kronwall, Stuart, Rafi, Ericsson, Kindl (5) on defense and Howard in goal Assuming a moderate cap increase (to $62M), Abby signing for around what Helm got, Ericsson getting a modest raise, and Howard getting around $2.5-3M, we'd have about ~$13M in cap space to fill out the roster. We'd have Modano, Nick, Salei, Eaves, Smith, Tatar, Mursak, and McCollum as possibilities to fill some of those spots. Give around $800k for McCollum or a vet backup, another $900k for either Tatar or Mursak, $1.5M for Eaves/UFA grinder, and we're left with around $9M for 2 d-men and possibly a 14th forward. Around $6M or so for Nick or a replacement, then ~$1M for either Smith or a UFA. I doubt Salei stays in the picture. The rest could go for Tatar/Mursak, Modano, or another cheap-ish UFA. Ericsson, Kindl, Ritola, Cleary, Flip and maybe Stuart are possible trade candidates. But that's too hard to predict, so I'll ignore it for now. The next year, assuming no lockout/strike and a similar cap, I'd expect: Pav (6.7), Hank (6), Mule (4), Flip (3), Huds (4), Cleary (2.8), Helm (1.5), Abby (1.5), Eaves (1.5), Tatar (.9), Mursak (.9), Ritola (.5) (12-$33.3) at forward Smith (.9), Kindl (.9), Ericsson (1.2), Stuart (3.5), Kronwall (4), Rafi (4), UFA (6) (7-$20.3) on defense Howard (2.8), McCollum (.8) ($3.6) in goal for a total of around $57.5 million. I would then expect either a top 6 forward UFA or a couple trades to add depth. So much depends on the performance of the players and what happens with the next CBA that you can't really predict much, so this probably won't be close.

But ultimately, retiring a number doesn't really mean anything. It's just an honorific. You'd hope that owners will reserve it for those that truly deserve it, but if not, well...so what? Does it really hurt anyone to have #77 in the rafters in Colorado?

I love doing the What If thing. My favorite is probably '84, where we could have done this: 1 7 Kevin Hatcher 2 28 Stephane Richer 3 49 Patrick Roy 5 91 Kjell Samuelsson 6 112 Brett Hull 7 133 Cliff Ronning 8 154 Luc Robitaille 9 175 Gary Suter

Bruins - Borque Sabres - Lafontaine Canadiens - I don't know...Damphousse maybe Senators - Hossa Leafs - Gilmour Devils - Broduer Isles - Ozzie Rangers - Kocur Flyers - Lindros Penguins - Mario Thrashers - Kovie Hurricanes - Brind'Amour Panthers - Umm...Dino played a few games there, lol Lightning - Lecavalier Capitals - Oates/Ovie Flames - Fluery Avalanche - Loved to hate Waah the most, but Sak and Foreskin were close, and LePew, and Foot... Oilers - Gretzky Wild - Yeah, no one... Canucks - Bure Blackhawks - Probert Blue Jackets - Fedorov Red Wings - The Captain Predators - Weber Blues - Hull Ducks - Selanne Stars - Modano Kings - Robitaille Coyotes - Tkachuk Sharks - Nolan

Maybe I'm an optimist, but I fully expect Homer to average 40 goals and 75 points for the next 7 years. Of course, he STILL wouldn't get in, but at least a thread like this would be justifiable then.

Think dodgeball. Puck laying on the center dot, skaters all lined up on their respective blue lines, whistle blows, mayhem ensues... It could be fun.

Game five of the Finals, for the celebration afterward.

Whichever player stays will be in the pressbox when the team is healthy. That makes potential much more valuable, IMO. I think it will come to camp performance, but for now I'd give Ritola the edge.