Buppy

I've never seen the rule do anything but take away legit goals. I would be happy if they just made the 'intent to blow' calls reviewable. It's not like anyone on the ice knows when the ref intends to blow the whistle, so any smart player is going to keep fighting until the whistle actually sounds. I can live with an accidentally quick whistle, but not robbing teams of goals because a ref says he meant to accidentally blow a quick whistle. And another one that bugs me is all the holding the stick calls that get missed. Typically, it happens on hooks. The player getting hooked pins the guys stick between his arm and body to make sure he gets a call. The result is usually just the hook getting called. Sometimes it will also happen in battles along the boards, usually with either no call or, if the player fights too hard to free his stick, a wrong call. Often, players having their sticks held this way will just drop them. That will earn a call every now and then, but not often enough (and sometimes it's still called a hook). It really puts defenders at a disadvantage.

Here's the link The $6M figure is coming from Helene St.James. She may have insider info, but it's not a direct quote from Kenny, so there's still hope.

Works in Chicago because they have Kane, Toews, and Keith at bargain prices. Wait until next year when they start paying those guys. And quick, who's on the third lines in SJ, Montreal, and Philly? Washigton? Pittsburgh? Phoenix, LA, Vancouver, Boston? Any of the other playoff teams or non-playoffs? Really, how many third lines outside Chicago are really any better than something like Cleary-Helm-Eaves? You want your bottom guys to score a goal every other game or so. The four remaining teams got that. The guys we have now can do that. They didn't in the playoffs, but they're definitely good enough to. You want third line scorers now, you either have stars on ELCs, a weak top 6, or Jason Williams. We have no ELCs, and I'd rather have guys like Helm, Abby, Eaves over either of the other options.

I think it would need some real analysis, and I think it could be something to look at in the future, but after a cursory look at some numbers can't see how it could be viable right now. Most teams in the league are already spending close to or over the cap for salaries. All but 3 teams over $45M. 19 spent ~$51M or more. Then looking at revenue reports from 09, I guesstimate non-salary expenses to be around $30M. That puts the break-even revenue already at $80-90M. Many teams are likely still well below that, and only a handful significantly above. This probably wouldn't hurt (and might even help) the franchises struggling the most, but the middle of the pack teams would suffer. Those making a little now would likely slip into the red, while those losing a little would get even worse. It could even push some pretty successful teams into a loss. Perhaps in the future, if we move some teams into better markets, get a better TV deal, better sponshorship, or whatever; get to a point where the majority of teams in the league are actually turning a profit, then it would be worth discussing. But right now, if anything, it looks like the cap is a little too high.

Jon Merrill is a defensemen whose stock has risen dramatically since having some problems early in the year. Looks like he'd be a really good pick if he were to fall to us. ISS Risers and Fallers Regarded as one of the best defenseman prospects coming out of the US this year, Merrill looks to have leapfrogged his competition and could be debated as being one of the top three best defensive prospects in the entire draft. Merrill was simply dominant in Belarus and his ability to play in all situations, including running the power play, certainly makes him all the more valuable. Merrill is explosive, gets the puck on net and creates lanes all over the ice. He is effective and reliable defensively and proves to be very difficult to win space against. Scouts are salivating at the chance to add Merrill to their rosters, as he is already a dominant player but still has a lot of room for improvement. This kid is for real. 6'3", 200 lbs. Mock drafts seems to be putting him in the 20-25 range. Sounds fairly similar to MacIlrath with maybe more of an offensive upside, but without the fighting.

Downie, Staubitz, Carcillo, Prust, and Chipchura are all RFAs. Don't think we'll even be considering anything like that, unless they get released. Pyatt, Winchester, or Nystrom would be my choice.

Carkner would have been a decent option, but he's already been signed by Ottawa. This just seems to be a terrible year for defensemen, unless you want someone in their late 30s. Janik would be better than Meech, but I'd rather have Lilly.

There you go, buddy. That wasn't so hard now, was it? Pick something I actually said, and argue against that, easy as pie. No need to make up stuff on your own and pretend that I said it. Now to counter your points. Regarding the KHL, I've never heard anything from Kovy. I've seen rumors that the KHL might throw $15-20m at him, and there is precedent for other players making the jump. I have to concede that it's a possibility. And yeah, he turned down a truckload from Atlanta. 7 years/$70m was another rumor. But what that suggests to me is only that he didn't want to stay in Atlanta. Some reports suggest that he didn't like the fan base, but I've never really heard anything directly from him, so the credibility is suspect. I would think he's not much different than most players, in that having a chance to win and a supportive fan base is important. Turning down that much money from Atlanta suggests to me that money is not neccessarily the most important factor in his decision. One comment from him is, "It's a business...but I'm open to anything". Suggests that money is a factor, but not the only one. As for other players making more, there's a few. Most, like Malkin, Crosby, etc, are players that are both younger and better, nor are they for the same term as I would offer. But then, there are some like Smyth and Lecavelier getting way too much, Nash in Columbus. I have to concede again that some teams out there would be willing and able to offer him more. Some, like LA, Phoenix, or Colorado, would even offer a fair chance at winning a Cup. So, I can only conclude now that it's certainly possible that he could get a better offer than I'd be willing to give. I still believe he would take a 10/$60 deal to come here, but I can understand your reasoning for not thinking he would. We'll have to agree to disagree. He would be great at the right price, you just don't think we could get that price. See how simple that was? One rational argument from you accomplished what days of nonsense couldn't. Enjoy the rest of your day.

He also played less than half the minutes. He was effective. He was also second in hits for defenseman. He was solid on the PK as well. I would definitely rather have him than Meech. But he is about to turn 35, and the concussion thing is always going to be a question mark I think. So I'd love to see us find an upgrade for him. Cap space probably won't be there, and it's not a good year for FA defensemen (at least not under 35), but there's a few I'd like that could feasibly be affordable if Nick comes back at a good price. Michalek, Hamhuis, Leopold, Seidenberg, maybe Exelby. Michalek is the only one that really stands out to me (assuming Volchenkov is out of reach). Ericsson and Kindl seem to be a given for two of the bottom 3. For the third I'd say FA > Lilja > Janik > Meech.

Damn, we were getting pretty close I thought. You brought up the goals gained and lost and I had hope we could get a real debate going. Now you're backsliding. Let me offer you some advice on proper debate. I start with a premise. I provide evidence. I draw a conclusion. You, to argue against that, either: Invalidate my premise or dispute my conclusion. You back it up with your evidence. My assertion is that Kovalchuk would make us a better team. I suggest the roster of players I listed would sign for the amounts I listed. That is my premise. I support that by citing various examples of similar players on similar deals. I then propose that said roster is superior to your suggested roster. I support that with my logic (since we're talking about the future, we obviously don't have any actual evidence). I conclude that my suggestion is superior. Now if you want to argue with that you either: A:) Invalidate my premise. You say that the players wouldn't sign for those amounts, but don't offer anything to support your argument. Your opinion that they wouldn't is not evidence. Why do you not think the players would sign for those values? OR B:) Dispute my conclusion: Argue that my roster is inferior to yours. You came close to trying this, but you've never actually argued against what I suggested. Therefore the logic you use is invalid. You've offered nothing to contradict my conlcusion. You are trying to do both of the above at the same time. You're saying (without anything to support your assertion) that my roster isn't viable, proposing your own alternate roster, and using that as the foundation of your argument. You're essentially arguing against yourself. So let's try simplifying once again. Multi-tiered arguments appear to be too difficult for you. Forget the whole better or worse part of the debate for a minute. Maybe we can get to that part later. Let's look at just the salaries. I posted my suggested roster with my suggested salaries. I offered my supporting evidence for why I believe the salaries are reasonable, why I believe the players would sign for those amounts. Now you counter that. Pick one or more deal in my list that you don't think the player would accept. Then tell me why. You say Kovalchuk wouldn't take $6 million. Ok, so... why not?

I read that, and seen similar such reports elsewhere. I don't understand anymore than you do. I guess they're expecting Kindl to be the 6th. Honestly worries me a little. Hopefully there's no truth to it, unless they're planning on letting Lilly go to make room for an upgrade, and letting Meech and Kindl fight over the 7th spot.

The debate is whether Kovalchuk would make the team worse or not. You say he would, I say he wouldn't. What Holland is willing to do is not relevant to that debate. The debate itself is irrevelant. Everything ever said on this board is in that context. Nothing said here effects anything in the real world. In fact, even if Holland WAS planning to go after Kovy, this debate would still be irrelevant. Kenny isn't looking for our advice. This is just a discussion board. We discuss things we find entertaining. I post my opinions about certain topics. I read others opinions. Not because it matters at all, but because I enjoy doing so. I enjoy debating my reasoning. But I'm not going to let an argument that basically amounts to "something you never said isn't true because something that doesn't pertain to it is" go unanswered.

Understandable. Personally, I'd do it. A lot can happen in ~6 years. Maybe $16m isn't a lot for aging stars by then. Maybe the new CBA will give us some options. Maybe trade one in a few years, while you still could. But yeah, I perfectly understand not wanting another long term deal. 10 years @ $6 mil. I wouldn't go over that for him. So I don't lose Holmstrom or any other extra player you have to use to try to make an argument. But hell, since you completely refuse to argue against what I'm actually suggesting, why don't you just argue against a 44 year deal @ $12.6 million. You could really win that one. Let me try to make it perfectly clear. I WOULD NOT GIVE MORE THAN ~$6 MILLION TO KOVY. IF HE WON'T TAKE $6, THEN I DON'T DO THE DEAL. I DON'T LOSE EXTRA PLAYERS. I DO THE DEAL I SUGGEST OR I DON'T DO ANY DEAL. I OFFER MY DEAL. MY DEAL = BETTER. YOUR DEAL = WORSE. I DO NOT DO YOUR DEAL. MY DEAL OR NO DEAL. Understand that? Say "that's what you'd have to do" all you want. I wouldn't do it. IF (and you don't really know) I had to do that, I would say no. $7 mil doesn't work. $7 mil is too much. I won't pay $7 mil. I don't care if I would 'have' to. In that case I wouldn't get Kovy. $6 mil or I don't do it. If Kovy has to cost $7 mil, my roster would be exactly the same as yours, because I wouldn't sign him. Now please, for the love of God, stop arguing with something I'm not suggesting. So the top 6 is: Kovalchuk = 41 (averaged over 45 the last 6 years, but this should be good) VS Hudler = 28 (optimistic, I'd say...who knows if he can stick on a top line, or if Babs will even give him a real chance) Cleary = 20 (playing alongside Hank and Mule, he's actually done it before) VS Filppula = 20 (yeah, we'll see, career high for him) +13 Datsyuk (and I don't even need to add anything to him), Zetterberg, Franzen, and Homlstrom make up the remaining top 6 in both cases. I'm not quite sure how you still managed to get Bert in your top 6. 3rd line now: You: Bertuzzi-Abdelkader-Cleary I'll give you 14-12-15 = 41 (better than Happy-Flip-Sammy were able to do, even with a much better top 6 in front of them) VS Me: Winchester-Abdelkader-Miller I'll call it 8-10-10 = 28 (a bit conservative I think, don't think Cleary and Bert would really make Abby better, but whatever) Total: Even Goals come out pretty even depending on how you want to slant the projections. I could easily add 10-15 goals difference either way. That's the fun thing about projections, you can say whatever you want. As for depth: Bert and Cleary aren't going to be any harder to play against, nor generate significantly more offense than my third line. Maybe 1 goal in a 7 game series (and that offset by my superior top 6). So the depth they give really comes down to having a few more options in terms of switching around line combos, and some insurance against someone like Homer, Flip, or Hudler getting injured. That is indeed valuable. Kovy however, reduces the need to protect against injury to Homer and Cleary. We're not as reliant on those 2nd tier players. He also gives us another legit superstar that protects us some against a key injury to Hank, Pav, or Franzen. Something your lineup can't offer. We are also harder to matchup against in the top 6. You have to admit that is also valuable. Persoanlly, I think I was pretty conservative. I think my lineup would net 20-30 more goals, and be much harder to shut down in the playoffs. But that's all just guesswork. I'm also not factoring in the return for Filppula and Hudler. I'd be looking for a good prospect with a year or two of exemption left. Someone who could step in down the road and contribute well at a bargain price. Someone who could potentially come in for the playoffs and contribute right away. I know that'd be hoping for a lot, so I'm not really considering that. But the possibility is there.

Reports indicate that cap is expected to go up. There have also been rumors of 'close to $58 million' and 'go up about a million'. It seems fairly likely at this point. $6 mil is fair for Kovy. Citing: Hossa ($5.1), Zetterberg ($6.1), Sedins ($6.1). It is a fair and reasonble price for a 10 year deal. It is reasonable to expect life-time Wings Homer and Lidstrom, both aging, to re-sign for a good value. $1.2 mil is a fair price for Helm and Abdelkader. I think it's actually a little high even. Either way, it's the number you picked, so I don't think you can reneg on it now. $900k is a fair price for Eaves and Miller. (You even gave Miller less. But you also gave Cleary $100k more than his contract, so...) It's substantially more than they got this year. There's also likely to be a couple dozen players just as good who'd be willing to play for that, or less. We got Eaves and Miller cheap this year. Malhotra got $700k in SJ. Prospal signed for a million. Afinogenov got $800k. Pyatt got $600k. Betts will get $700k, up from $550k. I'm sure there's plenty more like that. Ritola has done nothing yet, not even been exceptional in GR. $650 is plenty fair for him. Lilly has done nothing that really deserves a raise. $1.25 is plenty for an aging 3rd pair shot blocker. Winchester hasn't had any great career. $1.3 is an over-payment if anything. The Blues seem to like him now, so maybe they give him more. So what. As I said about Eaves and Miller, there are plenty of other fish that would take it, and be just as good. And how in the hell do you think that roster is weak? What part of it is even remotely weak?

East cumulative: 115-118-37 Looks like you forgot to add in Florida

What else is there to argue about?

FORWARDS * Tomas Holmstrom ($1.500m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / * Ilya Kovalchuk ($6.000m) Johan Franzen ($3.955m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Daniel Cleary ($2.800m) * Brad Winchester ($1.300m) / * Justin Abdelkader ($1.200m) / * Drew Miller ($0.900m) Kris Draper ($1.583m) / * Darren Helm ($1.200m) / * Patrick Eaves ($0.900m) * Mattias Ritola ($0.650m) DEFENSEMEN Brian Rafalski ($6.000m) / * Nicklas Lidstrom ($5.000m) Brad Stuart ($3.750m) / Niklas Kronwall ($3.000m) * Andreas Lilja ($1.250m) / Jonathan Ericsson ($0.900m) Jakub Kindl ($0.883m) GOALTENDERS Chris Osgood ($1.417m) / Jimmy Howard ($0.717m) CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS ROSTER: 21; PAYROLL: $57.688m; CAP ROOM: $0.012m BONUSES: $0.000m Every single salary in that list, and the modest cap raise, are reasonable expectations. Kovy would have to be a ~10 year deal, but it is not unrealistic. Whether or not Kovy would accept a reasonable deal like that is irrelevent. Obviously, if he wouldn't then you don't take him.

Your right. In the past we could get Shannahan for Primeau. Chelios for Eriksson. Hasek for Kozlov. Hull and Robitaille for nothing. But we can't now with the cap. We can't Kovy without giving something up. We also can't get Hudler for Williams or Bert. We can't get Abdelkader for Miller or Eaves. We can't get Torres for nothing. Hell, we can't even get Helm for Helm. We can't just upgrade the secondary players anymore than we can upgrade top line players. Hudler coming back takes almost all the salary we were paying for Bert AND Williams. Abdelkader will likely take almost everything we were paying Miller AND Eaves (or more). Fortunately, with Lidstrom and Homer likely to free some cap space, we have some flexibility. You want to spread it around on small upgrades here and there. I'd rather lump it all together for one big upgrade. I take the freed space, use it for the various raises, then instead of taking Hudler back, I package him with Flip for a better player. Moreover, since Kovy is a FA, Flip and Happy can be traded for picks and prospects. Possibly find that future star on an ELC who can give us great depth again. We can NOT recreate 02, with 3 fantastic scoring lines and the grind line at thier best. That's not possible in a cap world. You want a 3rd line that can score 60 goals? Either get some kids on ELCs to play like stars, or plan on having a second line that can only score 40. I'm not sure what you think is 'thin' about my lineup, unless maybe you didn't count the FA signing I mention. flipula-zetterberg-franzen = Cleary-Zetterberg-Franzen (I assume this Filppula was supposed to be Cleary) hudler-datsyuk-holmer <<< Kovalchuk-Datsyuk-Holstrom helm-flipula-miller(...eaves) > Winchester-Abdelkader/Helm-Miller/Eaves abdelkader-draper-eaves(...possible '4th line specialist') = Draper-Helm/Abdelkader-Eaves/Miller Ritola = Ritola Slightly better 3rd, much worse 2nd. Nor do I understand the logic that would have them losing in the first round. Our team this year, despite a nightmarish sequence of injuries, put up over 100 points, made the 2nd round, and were very competetive against perhaps the best team in the league. (And with a little more luck could still be playing) These are the changes from this year to my proposal: Filppula - Kovalchuk Bertuzzi - Winchester/Pyatt or some other similar UFA signing Williams - Abdelkader (full time) Maltby + May - Ritola Lebda + Meech - Kindl The bottom 3 are likely to happen no matter what. (Though Meech might stick around if we don't keep Lilja. ) Are you trying to suggest now that Flip and Bert would be better than Kovy and Winchester? Assuming the bottom 3 changes happen, the other changes without Kovy would be: Add Hudler Lose one of Bert, Miller, or Eaves Maybe add a 3rd/4th line grit player Lose another of Bert, Miller, or Eaves How is any feasible option from the above any more of an upgrade than Kovy?

I don't know if you just can't read or if you're being deliberately dense. I'm not "Giving up three key players and one role player for one star ". It's three players for three players. Flip, Happy, Bert for Kovy, Miller, UFA. A little third line scoring for improvement on the top line. Some general depth for some depth in a key area. Your top 6 is ok (though I don't like the line combos), but not nearly as good as mine. The 4th line is the same as I would have. That third line isn't any better than mine. Bert is completely out of place there. Maybe swap him for Torres and it's better than mine, but not by a lot, and you might have to lose your 14th forward. So, for the UFA in my roster, I'd be looking for someone like Winchester or Pyatt. Big, ok speed, can play physical, works hard, not a liability on defense, can chip in 10-15 goals. That gives me a bottom 6 of: Winchester - Abdelkader - Miller Draper - Helm - Eaves Ritola They bring speed, hard work, solid defense and penalty killing, physical play, and probably 60-70 goals. Your bottom 6: Bertuzzi-Abdelkader-Cleary Eaves-Helm-Draper Miller Ritola Pretty much the same thing but maybe 70-80 goals. Your bottom 6 with Torres replacing Bert and Miller: Torres-Abdelkader-Cleary Eaves-Helm-Draper Ritola Pretty much the same thing goal-wise, but faster and more physical than your suggestion. In exchange for those 0-20 goals I give you a vastly improved top 6, that is BETTER equipped to sustain an injury to a key forward. Yeah, I'd jump at that chance. You have to accept that Bert or Cleary would not be 20 goal scorers buried on the third line. Flip will not break out on the third line. Hudler will not be a star on the third line. Two years ago we iced a third line of Hudler-Filppula-Sammy. On paper it looks a lot better than what either of us is talking about now, but they still combined for only 40 ES goals. 40. With a stacked top 6 in front of them. Happy and Sammy got a lot of points playing on the PP, but ES they were nothing special. 40 goals. Draper-Helm-Eaves this year combined for 30. Your 'depth' looks great on paper, but in practice it just doesn't work that way. You want valuable contributions from a 3rd and 4th line. Mine give you that. They take the PK burden off the top 6. They cause problems with their speed and physicality. Maybe we could even start using Helm and Eaves/Miller/Abdelkader as shut down players against opposing scoring lines the way we used to use Maltby and Draper. And they can still contribute secondary scoring. Once again, you don't argue against what I'm actually suggesting. I'll try to simplify it for you. I doubt you'll get it, but whatever. Filppula + Hudler + Bertuzzi FOR Kovalchuk + Miller + Winchester. Everything else is the same. No other changes. No loss of Helm/Abby/Eaves/Homer. Just those 6 players. 3 on your side, 3 on mine. Or since you went with 14 forwards this time, go ahead and take Miller off my side. Flip-Happy-Bert for Kovy-Winchester. Hell, call it Flip+Happy for Kovy if you want. Kovalchuk > Filppula + Hudler. That's the crux of my position. Argue against that.

Building a franchise, I'd have to go with all kids, so no Wings on the short list. On a full roster I'd have Helm, Nick, maybe Hank and Howard. Core of the team has to be the defense. Goalies are too fickle. Doughty is a lock. Anchor of the team for the next 15 years. Myers or Weber for the second. Another anchor and another righty. Pair each of them with a 2nd tier d-man, and that's a dominant top 4 for many years. In goal I'd want someone young, dependable, and not going to break the bank (maybe asking too much). Price maybe. Lehtonen? Rinne seems to fit the mold somewhat, but he could get a big payday. Halak, Rask, Howard, Ward and Fluery are other options. For the forwards it's hard not to pick Crosby, OV, and Stamkos. All very young, all very dominant. But I also want Toews in there somewhere. And Backstrom. And, and, and... Maybe to ease the cap burden a little I do something like Crosby, Toews, and Nash. Or throw Staal in there somewhere.

Looking at all the adds last year, including Helm, Leino, Ericsson, and Howard, I can't say there were any I really disliked that much. I thought Kenny did a nice job for being in a tough spot with the cap. I wanted Malhotra. Could have been in place of either Bert or Willy. I didn't like the fact that Willy was going to play the point, but other than that I didn't mind him. He had a decent season the year before. Bert kept Flip from starting out in the top 6, so I didn't really like that, but again no real complaint. Howard was my only real worry, though I knew we had to give him a chance. I didn't think he'd make it even as a backup though.

East and West are like a mirrored image this year. Everything's backward. If we'd have had Leino we'd have been up 3-0 and lost. Count your blessings.

Wow. Just wow. I guess I would feel bad for Boston if I cared. 7 & 8 seeds in the East finals, both with epic comebacks (or epic chokes from the other side). Kind of puts a hole in our 'bottom teams in the East are terrible' theory. ALL the teams in the East are terrible. 4 game 7s so far, and the home team lost all of them.

What Holland is looking for and his interest in another long-term deal is irrelevent to the discussion of whether or not Kovy would make the team better. It only effects the likelihood of Kovy coming here. On that I agree, the chance is pretty much zero. Something big would have to happen before July 1st to change Kenny's mind, and it probably won't. Gives you something to clamor on about, but it still isn't relevent. And my point on Hossa is that if you have a chance to improve something, you do it. You seem to be suggesting that Kenny isn't looking to improve the top 6 because we don't need anything. The reality is that the only reason he isn't looking is because he doesn't believe we can do anything there...at least nothing that he would be willing to do. You can keep repeating this 'fill the bottom 6 with worthless scrubs' nonsense all you want, it doesn't make it true. Maybe Kovy would want $9 mil long term, and if so then it doesn't happen. But you have no idea what Kovy wants. If he wants to play for a good team, he'll have to take a reasonable cap hit. Maybe he could get a lot from a team like Colorado or LA that might be on the verge, but I doubt even that would happen. Not after the deals for Hossa, Franzen, Hank, and the Sedins (even though they aren't long-term). Again, it isn't really relevent to whether or not he would make the team better. That's like saying he would make the team worse by demanding the sacrifice of one roster player as part of his pre-game ritual. I could just as easily argue that Lidstrom will make the team worse because he will demand $10 mil and force the team to waive Datsyuk and Zetterberg. Suggesting that Kovy will make unreasonable demands doesn't make it true, nor does it mean I or anyone else was suggesting the team accept such demands. Obviously you don't sign a player at any cost. We have to start with a reasonable foundation. And Nick @ $5 mil, Kovy @ $6 mil IS reasonable. A modest cap raise IS reasonable. This IS reasonable: FORWARDS Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / * Ilya Kovalchuk ($6.000m) Johan Franzen ($3.955m) / Daniel Cleary ($2.800m) / Kris Draper ($1.583m) * Tomas Holmstrom ($1.500m) / * Darren Helm ($1.200m) / * Justin Abdelkader ($1.200m) * Drew Miller ($0.900m) / * Patrick Eaves ($0.900m) / * Mattias Ritola ($0.650m) DEFENSEMEN Brian Rafalski ($6.000m) / * Nicklas Lidstrom ($5.000m) Brad Stuart ($3.750m) / Niklas Kronwall ($3.000m) * Andreas Lilja ($1.250m) / Jonathan Ericsson ($0.900m) Jakub Kindl ($0.883m) GOALTENDERS Chris Osgood ($1.417m) / Jimmy Howard ($0.717m) CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS ROSTER: 21; PAYROLL: $56.388m; CAP ROOM: $1.312m BONUSES: $0.000m Not one salary in that list is completely out of line. Even all of them together is not that big a stretch. It leaves you $1.3 mil to sign a 13th forward. That's enough to get a decent third liner, probably even one that could step into the top 6 in a pinch. And that roster is quite simply BETTER than it would be with Flip and Happy in place of Kovy and Miller/Eaves. The top 6 is far better, and bottom 6 is still more than capable of contributing both defensively and on the PK AND a fair amount of secondary scoring. Would it be better long term? Who knows. You'd have to know what's going to happen with both Kovy and the Cap/CBA. It's a risk for sure. But I'd be willing to take it. Frankly there's risk in everything we do or don't do. Maybe in 6 years when Nick and Rafi are gone, Pav and Hank aging, etc, the team will go to s*** no matter what we do. If we're going to be bad for a few years, what difference does it make it we're bad with Kovy surrounded by scrubs or bad with a bunch of mediocre tweeners? Again, I don't blame anyone if they don't want to take the risk, but you can't definitely say it would be a bad move. You don't know. No one does. Your slippery slopes and portents of doom aside. Would it be better than holding some money in reserve for the trade deadline? Or using some of the space to upgrade the defense? Or even goaltending? Or some other, cheaper top 6 forward that would allow us to keep either Filppula or Hudler? All that's debatable, and I wouldn't hate any of those decisions. But if we come back next year with essentially the same team as this year, just Hudler replacing Willy and a couple largely inconsequential moves on the 4th line, Kindl, Meech, and Ericsson making up our bottom pair on defense, and no cap space for deadline acquisitions...well, I'll be disappointed, and I'd bet most fans would be too by season's end. Now if you want to argue that he's not enough of an improvement to justify the risk, then fine. Can't really debate that since neither of us knows the future. Difference of opinion, moving on. Same if you just want to say it will never happen. Can't debate it. I don't think it will either. I just hope it does. But if you want to say that Filppula, Hudler, and Bert would be better than Kovy, Miller, and whomever we could get for $1.3 mil (maybe even Bert, but I'd hope not), well... bring it on. But please put your silly 'bottom 6 full of scrubs' argument to bed.

I get it now. You can't actually argue with me, so you just replace parts of my roster with 'SCRUB', as apparently any player making a low wage is completely incapable of adding anything to a team. I mean, it's not like any team has ever had a player making under $600k score 10+ goals, or be a primary penalty killer, or earn praise for high-energy play...much less 3 of said players in the same year. Eaves and some player making $600-800k couldn't possibly contribute anything to a team. So yeah, just insert a derogotory term or two into my lineup and pretend that I suggested trading 3 players for Kovy. But whatever. I'd be willing to do another long-term deal for Kovy. One of the best goal scorers of our era. 3 isn't an overwhelming number, but I can understand not wanting to do it. Whether it would be bad for the future or not, no one knows. It's a risk, not a guaranteed failure. And you could be 'pretty sure' about anything you want concerning Kovalchuk's intentions. You're still just guessing. If Kovy wants to play for a winner, he has to sign for a reasonable deal. $5-7 million. Maybe he doesn't care, maybe he does. You don't know anything. And Kenny said he's only looking for help for the bottom 6. He never said he doesn't want to improve the top 6. He likely just doesn't think we can. The man added Hossa to a Cup winning roster. Nothing can ever be good enough. You always improve if you have the ability. But he obviously doesn't believe we could get enough money for Kovy. I'm fine with that, but I'd like to see him try. I think he will in some ways, but he may fear insulting Nick, or going to arbitration, or whatever. Again, I'm fine with it if that's what happens, so long as he at least leaves us some space for a possible deadline deal. So, to finish, since it looks like so much fun, I'm going to randomly replace players in your roster. Your roster looks thin at best: Bertuzzi ($1.5)-A can of aerosol cheese ($6.7)-Holmstrom($1.8) = $10 Cleary(2.8)-Zetterberg($6.1)-a fish($4) = $12.9 Hudler(2.9)-Filppula($3.0)-Eaves(1.2) = $7.1 Abdelkader($1.2)-Helm($1.2)-Draper($1.6) = $4 Ritola ($.775) Total $34 Lidstrom($5)-Ralfi($6) Kronwall($3)-the color orange($3.7) Lilja($1)-Ericsson($.900) Meech($900) Total $20.5 $54.5 Cap $56.8 Have fun in the draft lottery, cheesefish!