Buppy

My post on page 2 of this thread has the daily numbers and unfortunately Leadzedder is right, Leino + Lebda + May is not quite enough. About 45k in full season salary short.

As was said earlier, we have zero cap space since we have been riding LTIR exemption thus far. So the only thing that matters is the per day hit, which doesn't change as that lower cap amount is divided over fewer days. (ex. 152 days for Miller assuming he stays for the remainder of the year, so 413k/152 = $2720 = 525k/193) Per day cap hits (rounded): Nicklas Lidstrom » $38,601 Pavel Datsyuk » $34,715 Henrik Zetterberg » $31,520 Brian Rafalski » $31,088 Johan Franzen » $20,490 Brad Stuart » $19,430 Valtteri Filppula » $15,544 Niklas Kronwall » $15,544 Daniel Cleary » $14,508 Tomas Holmstrom » $11,658 Kris Draper » $8,204 Todd Bertuzzi » $7,772 Jason Williams » $7,772 Chris Osgood » $7,340 Andreas Lilja » $6,477 Jonathan Ericsson » $4,663 Kirk Maltby » $4,577 Ville Leino » $4,145 Jimmy Howard » $3,713 Brett Lebda » $3,368 Darren Helm » $3,106 Drew Miller » $2,720 Patrick Eaves » $2,591 Derek Meech » $2,504 Brad May » $2,591 Total $304,641 Limit $294,301 Overage $10,340 <---- Amount we need to cut

Not so much 'throwing in the towel' as it is a lack of options. Someone HAS to go (multiple players actually). If Lilja comes back first, we'll need to move 1 player for roster limit, any salary. May is probably most likely to clear waivers, so that would be my guess. If Franzen comes back first, we need to move about $750k worth of salary. May alone wouldn't be enough, but Leino would. When both are back (assuming Lilja does in fact return) we need to move almost 2 million in salary. (Assuming no one else goes on LTIR) it will certainly be interesting. May, Leino, Lebda is not enough. We could very well see some major sort of trade. Zetterberg, Franzen, Lidstrom, Helm, Howard, and Draper probably the only untouchables.

Every player in every sport is paid, at least in part, on potential. Players have to sign contracts before they can play. That means they are paid for what they are expected to do. Those expectations may be based on past performance, or expert analysis of potential, or a combination thereof. Neither is a guarantee of future success.

Ericsson was called up to replace Lilja last year. Might have had a couple games mid-season, but certainly wasn't many. The very good version of Ericsson last year was paired mostly with Lebda.

No offense, but who wouldn't make that move? Where would you get the rest of the salary needed for Hossa though? Holland said he was willing to move players to keep Hossa, and I'm sure Flip (and Cleary) would have been one. But we would have had to move more than just 1 player. I'm a huge Flip fan, and think he would be a consistent 60+ point guy if he was on the second line with good linemates (like Franzen and someone like Cleary or Williams). I think that would also give Pav and Hank the opportunity to rekindle the magic they had together a couple years ago. But I would give him up if we could get a high end goal scorer in return. Not sure what else we could package with him to do that though. A second tier sniper I would think about, but we should have the cap space to add that this summer anyway. So unless it was someone who could make a real difference this year, I wouldn't do it. However, if Babs wants to insist on splitting Pav and Hank (thus sticking Flip on the third line) then I would move him for just about anything. I'd rather see Helm and Abdelkader centering our 3rd and 4th lines in the future, or some other cheap, decent FA. As good as he is, Flip just doesn't have the right skillset to carry a line offensively, and he makes too much for what he would bring to a third line.

Didn't see it mentioned yet, so for the record no one needs to be waived yet. Not until Franzen (or Lilja) comes back. May, Maltby, and Leino will all rotate in and out until then, possibly Miller as well, though he definitely deserves to be playing. Once Mule comes back we'll need to shed 1 player and roughly 750k in salary. Leino would fill both, if they want to risk waiving him. Otherwise, they will have to move 2 people, since I really doubt they would waive Maltby. Also, I can't see them moving Lebda or Meech until Lilja comes back, if that even happens. Most likely both will finish the year here barring some significant trade. If Lilja does come back (and assuming Leino is waived for Mule), we'd then need to move May, Lebda or Meech, and another player. Miller I would guess.

That's basically what 'rebuild' means. So forgive people for getting the wrong impression. You're talking about tweaking the roster, which pretty much every team does pretty much every year. But to address some points made so far: Yes, when healthy the Wings are one of the best teams in the league, or at least they could be. Maybe not as stacked as Chicago or San Jose, but certainly talented enough to beat anyone if they play well. We're short on finishers, but we have a lot of talent. Franzen is a huge loss, since he's one of our few potent goal scorers. Like it or not, injuries ARE an excuse. No team can suffer so many key injuries without some decline in performance. Nick is declining, but he's still one of the best players in the league. Of course, sometime in the next few years we need to find some way to ease the inevitable loss, and we have a few good prospects already, and FA will likely be an option as well. Stuart has been great this year, and has stepped up in the playoffs both years he's been here. Still relatively young, and his contract is decent. No reason to even think about trading him. I think we are already seeing the eventual 'replacements' for Draper, Homer, and Maltby in guys like Helm, Abdelkader, Eaves, and Miller. None really stand out as a potential Homer-of-the-future, but all are young and look like very valuable role players. Draper will likely play out his contract at least, but I have my doubts that Maltby will get another offer, or that Homer will even want to come back. Rafalski really isn't worth his cap hit right now, but we may not have the option to do anything about it. And who knows, he could still step up and start earning his pay. Any way you slice it, we'll certainly see some changes this summer, like every summer. But nothing major needs to, or should, be done (depending of course on what Nick decides to do).

Like pretty much any sane fan, I'd give up just about anyone if we could get Kovalchuk. Not going to happen, but we can dream I suppose.

If nothing else, we know that this team has 3 very solid 4th lines. And yeah, Janik > Meech/Lebda

There's a difference between revenue and profit/loss. Every team generates revenue, some just spend more than they make. The cap is based off revenue, so any reduction in teams would mean a reduction in the cap, if the current rules continue. (Though with the CBA expiring soon, it's possible a different deal could be worked out.)

Only Zetterberg has more 5 on 5 goals. Cleary has the same amount. Cleary is a -8, Homer +2. He's pretty much as good as he's ever been. If the team was healthy, a top 6 role is the best place for him. He doesn't have the skills you want in a 3rd or 4th liner. He can contribute on the top lines, and the stats prove it. As injured as we are, I'd rather see one big top line, two decent grinder-type lines, and a poor 4th than two mediocre scoring lines. As for Lidstrom, his play so far may not be worth his salary, but he's still playing top notch defense, and it's a long season. If you factor his worth over his career against what he's been paid, we probably still owe him about $100 million. So 1/4 of a season with performance a little below his salary isn't something you have any right to criticize.

Unless Leino shows some very dramatic improvement our biggest need is another sniper for the top 6. Offense rules the regular season, and is becoming more and more important to the post season as well. Frolov would be good. He doesn't seem to have a very good relationship with Murray, so I wouldn't be at all surprised to see him leave LA. Work ethic questions aside, he's a 30+ goal scorer. He might also thrive with a change of scenery. Marleau and Jokinen would also be good, but probably not priced right. There's also quite a few guys a tier below that would be worth looking at. Beyond that, a good stay at home defenseman for the 3rd pair is next. Volchenkov, Mitchell, or McKee would all work, though maybe a little pricey, and I think they'll all stay where they are. Haven't really looked at what else is available. We have 3 young goalies with some potential (4 if you count Pearce as a long shot), so I don't think anything will happen there at least until Ozzie retires. Of course, if Nick hangs them up this summer, defense becomes the top priority.

And yet the Pens lost 5 of 6 when Malkin and Gonchar were out, including 4 straight where they scored only 3 total goals and were shut out in consecutive games. Yes, we're on a bad streak. Lost 3 in a row, scoring only 1 goal (that was allowed), and 5 of 6, scoring only 5 goals (+1 for the SO win). 3 points in 6 games. Sucks. Prior to that we won 3 in a row scoring 19 goals, 6 of 7, and gained at least 1 point in 8 out of 9 games, scoring 37 goals. I don't think either streak is more indicative of this team's capabilities than the other. The cap cost us the depth that we now need due to injury. Sucks but it's reality. We'll have good streaks and bad streaks. Just need to weather the current storm, there's little else we can do. Significant roster moves just aren't feasible. I'm not saying that some players (all even) are playing fine. Of course they need to play better than they have in the current stretch. That's fairly obvious though, and I'm sure they will improve. But there's no reason to overreact to one short stretch of games.

FORWARDS Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / * Alexander Frolov ($4.250m) Johan Franzen ($3.955m) / Valtteri Filppula ($3.000m) / * Kris Versteeg ($3.083m) Daniel Cleary ($2.800m) / * Darren Helm ($1.000m) / * Patrick Eaves ($0.750m) Kris Draper ($1.583m) / * Justin Abdelkader ($0.850m) / Ville Leino ($0.800m) * Brad May ($0.500m) DEFENSEMEN * Nicklas Lidstrom ($4.500m) / * Brent Seabrook ($3.500m) Brad Stuart ($3.750m) / * James Wisniewski ($2.750m) * Anton Volchenkov ($2.750m) / Jonathan Ericsson ($0.900m) Jakub Kindl ($0.883m) GOALTENDERS Chris Osgood ($1.417m) / * Daniel Larsson ($0.850m) CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS ROSTER: 22; PAYROLL: $56.654m; CAP ROOM: $0.146m BONUSES: $0.000m Since we're dreaming... Chicago needs to shed salary, and Rafi would certainly love to reunite with Neidermeyer in Anaheim, so in a blockbuster deal, we send Rafi to the Ducks for rights to Wisniewski and a draft pick, then send the pick and Kronwall to Chicago for Seabrook and Versteeg. Pick up Volchenkov and Frolov as FAs, and sign Nick, Wis, Helm, Jabs, Eaves, May, and Larsson all to friendly contracts... Gives us two excellent scoring lines, a hell of a checking line, a 4th line mixing vets with a couple kids with high potential, a defense corps that can play physical and clear the crease while still moving the puck well and chipping in offensively, a future HoF goalie, and goalie of the future...

For the time being, I think the 'one big line' approach is the way to go... Pav - Hank - Cleary Draper - Helm - Eaves Bert - Leino - Homer Miller/May - Jabs - Maltby Lids - E Rafi - Janik Stu - Lebda/Meech

I think what the poster was trying to say is that some teams play very conservatively in OT (or late in tied games). Trying not to lose, believing they have a better chance if they can get to the shootout. Personally, I prefer ties. I'd go one 20 minute OT, 4 on 4. That much time and that much ice, I'd think you'd see fairly few ties. However, I'd settle for a 10 minute OT with the shootout, 2 points for a win, 0 for a loss. That at least would get teams to play with more intensity.

Heh, that sounds funny considering that professional sports exist solely because of their entertainment value. But I agree, it's a dumb way to settle a game, especially with the practically pointless 5 minute OT preceding it.

Without the 9 goal game, we'd be 15th. I think it's a bit naive to think we won't struggle offensively. Doesn't mean they need to win 1-0, but no one ever really thought that. They will need to win a lot of games where we score 3 or less though. We've only scored more than that 4 times in 17 games.

Nothing really wrong, or surprising, about it IMO. Giggy makes $6 million, no one can pay a backup goalie that much. Probably shouldn't be talking about it publically, but it's no big deal.

Shoulder pads aren't really the problem. Indirectly perhaps, in that with better shoulder protection, players are able to hit harder and more solid. (One thing you'll notice in that 80s video, is a lot more pushing in the checks along the boards...a big shoulder check against the boards back then would hurt the hitter almost as much as the hittee.) That I think is the crux of the respect argument. It's not that players are trying to hurt people, they're just not congnizant of how much damage they can do. Maybe respect is the wrong word. As far as equipment, helmets and chin straps are where to look. If that OHL kid's helmet had been strapped on, he probably wouldn't have missed a game, much less nearly died.

Sounds odd, but Chicago is actually under the cap, since they have about $5 mil in bonus cushion. They don't need to clear anything to activate Hossa. According to capgeek, they haven't even claimed LTIR exemption for Hossa. Probably something to do with the bonuses. Also, the Wings haven't claimed LTIR for Flip or Willy as of yet. No point in it if they aren't being replaced.

I think the combination of the two clauses is basically saying 'if a player can come off LTIR, then clear your cap and roster space in as soon as reasonably possible'.

Actions speak louder than words (or what you believe is common sense). That's not to say that respect is the biggest problem, nor that players are deliberately malicious, more that they're just not thinking about the other players.

Leetch and MacInnis are pretty interchangeable. Mac gets the longetivity points, but Leetch a little more clutch. Leetch also managed to win a Norris when Coffey, Borque, and Chelios were all in their primes. And I think you may be underestimating Stevens on offense. He was putting up double-digit goals and 60+ points prior to Lemaire's restrictive system in NJ. He wasn't as talented as the other two, but he wasn't really one-dimensional either. Either way, all three were great, and I'd be happy with any one of them. And for C-TownWing: I don't think it's really possible to 'disrespect' anyone when were talking about 8 players, and Luc Robitaille is the worst of them.