Buppy

Certainly some big shoes to fill, even though all of them were past their prime when playing here. I still think more of 16 and 7 when I think of Hull and Cheli though.

Probably 2 million+ people in Toronto area vying for 19,000 seats. Surprised the tickets aren't higher, frankly.

Not much more than you'd expect from a 4th liner. Not bad, not great. I liked his speed, but I can't say he did anything worthy of note. Showed enough that I think it's worth seeing more. Still a grade of incomplete for Patty though, as far as I'm concerned.

Heh, because the notion that he's fine for the power play (easier to play but far more important) yet terrible at even strength is preposterous. Homer isn't great; never has been. But he is a nice compliment to our skilled players. I don't see much difference between Homer and Bert, and with Mule's injury creating a vaccuum in the top 6 one of them has to be on the third line. Our third line in Franzen's absence will probably be nearly as important as our 2nd, so hopefully whomever is there will be up to the task.

Heh, not that deep. Pav will be centering the 2nd line, probably with Kovalchuk and either Frolov or Kovalev. Just sick for a 2nd line. Russia definitely has the best top 6. But I digress. Solid game all around tonight. All the line combos looked fine. My highlight was Flip coming out on top in a collision with OV. 40 lbs lighter and much less aggressive but still leave the exchange with the puck and the other guy on his ass. Attaboy Flip. And even though Nick and Rafi were solid again tonight, I have to say I think Stuart and Kronwall have been our best defense pair thus far this season. They seem to be at playoff level right now. Let's hope they keep it up, we need it.

It's not that I don't agree with your premise, I was just pointing out that the loss of Franzen also hurts our defensive capabilities as well. And let's be realistic here. To remain a serious contender, this team already needed to improve defensively and have guys step up offensively. We weren't going to outscore team like last year even before Mule got hurt. Now we need to tighten up even more and have certain players like Flip and Leino exceed even the more optimistic expectations in order to stay in contention, and that's assuming Mule can be himself once he gets back. I'm not saying it's time to panic, or that we should give up on this year. But I think we should now consider ourselves underdogs to win the division, and acknowledge that losing perhaps our best goal scorer for at leat 4 months is a very serious blow.

Admit it Jake...the FACT that Homer is tied for the team lead in goals is tearing your heart out. 800-273-TALK if you get too depressed.

While Fedorov was a better player than Shanny, I'd say Shanny has a better chance at making the Hall on the first ballot. Better goal scorer and North American; that's just how it goes. Hopefully, they'll go in together in 3 years, along with Chelios if he doesn't find a gig this year. Also, while Fedorov was better than Yzerman while they were both here, the fact is Fedorov's leaving justifiably hurt his chances of getting his jersey in the rafters. The Captain was something special. The face and heart of this team for over two decades. Sergei was a great player here, but never reached that iconic status. Even in Stevie's waning years, it was Lidstrom that emerged as the team's soul. Maybe, like Abel, Fedorov will get his jersey up there 40-odd years from now. In response to Shoe's comment about Larionov and Hasek before Fedorov...that's ridiculous. Neither player is even close to deserving consideration for their time with the Wings.

He played more ES than he did against Chicago, and looked pretty good doing it. Bertuzzi and Zetterberg had arguably their best games; maybe Cleary is washed up...oh wait, he had a very good game as well. Homer is as good as he's ever been. If you think he was ever significantly better, your memory is painting him a brighter color than he really was. That said, I think all the line combos worked well tonight. Eaves was decent, though I can't say yet whether he deserves a regular spot over Maltby. Draper and May did a good job. Jabs had maybe his best game, and Willy looked good in all three zones. Leino-Flip-Cleary were fantastic, and Pav and Hank proved once again that together they are greater than the sum of their parts, even though they didn't get much on the scoresheet. If everyone can continue to play that well together, particularly that 2nd line, we'd be able to put Hank-Pav-Mule together once he comes back. What a luxury that would be, though a long way to go and a lot to prove before that happens.

Roy is a little unusual as he had a great run with two different teams. Taking his career as a whole and of course he deserves his number retired, but for either team he's borderline. He's also perhaps one of the top 5 goalies ever. Numbers aren't the only thing. Ozzie has been great at times, and also had some struggles. Remember, we got rid of him because we didn't think he was good enough for the playoffs. Though his numbers are fantastic, he wouldn't even make a top 20 all-time list. Perhaps if he had been with the Wings his entire career I'd give him more consideration, but right no I still think he's a no. Hall of fame, yes, Rafters, no. Of course he still has time to change my mind.

Jersey retirement is about the biggest honor a team can bestow on a player. If we retired the numbers of every good, popular, or long-time player we'd eventually be down to Qs and ampersands. Nick - Of course Sergei - Borderline even if he had stayed, as it is no way Vladdy - Tragic accident, deserves a memorial, but no Ozzie, Chelios, Draper, Maltby, McCarty, Probert, Kocur, Shanny, Homer, Fischer, etc...no

With Franzen's injury, not only do we not have to send anyone down when Helm comes back, but we can also have Abdelkader as well, for a full 14 forwards. It at least gives the option of rotating out the older players or guys who are struggling. Babs has said that Flip will be moving into the top 6, and I assume Leino will see some time there as well, and possibly even Williams. I expect to see a lot of line juggling for a while.

Not bad, but I don't really like the third line. Of course, without Mule I don't think we can get 4 really good lines. 2nd line could also use a better net presence. Put Cleary with Flip and Leino. Stick May and Bertuzzi along side Helm and give them a license to kill. Drop Willy down to the 4th with some combination of Draper, Maltby, Eaves, and Jabs. Optionally, put Cleary on the top line, Willy stays with Flip and Leino, and Homer on the 4th.

Two problems: 1. Franzen is a good defensive forward, and we'll miss that aspect as well. 2. Much of our defensive prowess over the past years is due to our puck possession game. That also takes a hit with Franzen gone.

Kind of early to really evaluate for most of the players. So going off past performance + expectations: 1. Osgood - Far, far, far ahead of anyone else. 2. Ericsson - Optimistic perhaps, definitely needs to step up from his first three games 3. Helm - Optimistic again, but great potential 4. Leino - Same as above 5. Zetterberg - Better be, now that Mule is down 6. Datsyuk 7. Lidstrom 8. Franzen 9. Kronwall 10. Lilja 11. Cleary 12. Wiliams 13. Stuart 14. Filppula 15. Abdelkader 16. Rafalski 17. May 18. Bertuzzi 19. Holmstrom 20. Maltby 21. Draper 22. Eaves - Could elevate considerably 23. Meech 24. Lebda 25. Larsson 26. Howard - Yeah, I don't have much faith in Howie

In all seriousness, it wouldn't hurt to give Sundin's agent a call. Not likely we could offer enough to get him, but it's worth a shot. Other than that, not sure there's any FAs left that I'd be interested in, and no trades (realistic ones, anyway) right now.

Forsberg isn't worth 2.5 plus. I wouldn't even give 1 plu for him. I don't even know what a plu is, but I'm sure Forsberg isn't worth one.

May, Draper, and Maltby have all looked good so far, but it's unlikely they can maintain that level for another 79 games. Bert isn't young and hasn't been very impressive. Homer is pretty old for the roughness of his game. I think all 5 should rotate out of the lineup, to keep them fresher for the playoffs. We have 13 forwards, so we should be using them. I think Eaves needs to get a shot with real players, since he spent most of the preseason with the likes of Ritola, Pare, and Emmerton. Maybe send Helm to GR for a week or two in order to get a good look at Eaves, and more time for May. (Assuming Helm is ready to come off IR shortly.) I doubt Eaves will be waived, since he's on a one-way contract, and so would be exposed to re-entry waivers (assuming he'd get called back up).

But you can't have a double standard. For all the Sedins out there there are more Kopeckys, Moens, Griers, etc. If you're a GM with a player like that and you want to keep them, and you're fighting the cap, the last thing you want is some other team expressing interest. There goes your chance to sign the player for a discount prior to the free agency opening. There's no reason for any team representatives to talk about that stuff publically or to people outside thier organization (in fact, if there was any benefit it would make a better argument for not allowing it), so they shouldn't do it. A moderate fine is appropriate.

I can see how talking about another team's free agents prior to the opening would be tampering. If a pending free agent knows another team is interested, it could be used as leverage for more money, or incentive to not sign a contract . For star players like the Sedins it may not matter, but for midrange players it might make a difference, and you can't have a double standard.

I can't decide what's more amusing: Rafi and Meech paired on the PK Ericsson over Kronwall on the PP Bert over Cleary on the PP Draper and Maltby paired on the PK Helm on the top line Franzen with Draper and Maltby Helm playing more than Pav and Hank Helm never playing center Homer never playing ES So Jake...Helm is featured pretty predominantly in your 'slideshow', huh? Or are you his mom? Or him?

This I don't get. I missed the first game (thanks DirecTV/Comcast), but he looked fine and scored a goal in the 2nd game. If all we're basing this on is the playoffs and the first two games, then you should be saying the same thing about Datsyuk. Relatively speaking, he's been worse.

+38 is not all that impressive for an 11 year career. And that's all been since he's been playing mostly top line with some great players on a team that has for the most part been very good both offensively and defensively. He was -16 pre-lockout, -45 in his first 6 seasons... Draper is a +73 career (even with his decline over the past few years), Maltby was well above +38 for a while...and those are guys who rarely score and spent a lot of their time playing against top lines. 'Weak' may or may not be a bit too far, my perception skewed by a team that has produced 6 Selke trophies since '94, but still, Homer is not and never has been particularly good defensively. More importantly, none of that, nor Bertuzzi, really have anything to do with what I was talking about anyway. The point of the quoted post was that Homer's skills have not significantly fallen off. He had a bad playoff run, just like Datsyuk and Hossa. The only thing that may have declined is his ability to absorb punishment without injury.

Homer is not a star player, nor is Bert, Cleary, Williams, Leino, or Flip. But all would be better suited to a top line role than Helm. Eaves would probably even be better. There's just no evidence that Helm could consistently do the things you list. You can't judge him by the 6 or 8 really good shifts (or in Jake's case, one great shift) and then forget the other 700 shifts where he hasn't done anything. The only skills Helm has over Homer is speed, hitting, and defense. Homer is a better passer, puckhandler, shooter, and most importantly, is accustomed to playing with highly skilled players...he knows how to compliment their ability without getting in their way. And you don't need three forwards to run the cycle. Aside from the Russian 5 days, the Wings have typically used two forwards and a defenseman, with the third forward on the opposite side near the net to occupy a opposing defenseman (or get an open shot on goalie moving laterally) and be in position to screen or get a deflection/rebound. It helps to have all three forwards (and both d-men) able to cycle effectively, but it's not needed. Besides, Homer is better at it than Helm anyway.

Is that really any different than having him on our current 2nd line?