Buppy

Yeah. I forgot how good a year Cammy had. Still wouldn't say he's any better than Perry, and neither Langkow nor Conroy are as good offensively as Ryan, and about the same as some of the others shuffled onto Getz's wing. As for the rest of it, if you want to argue that Getz would be a better option to build a team around, then I could buy that. But to say that Getz is better offensively right now is just absurd. Better passer, sure, but barely a shadow of Iggy in terms of goal scoring.

Curious why you think Stuart would be gone? Barring a very large reduction in the cap, we should have no problems keeping his salary, even if Ericsson were to leapfrog him on the depth chart. Kindl has a one-way contract after this year. He'll be on the roster or out of the organization. Lebda is UFA, Meech RFA, so Meech will probably stay if either of them does. I don't expect Lilly to make it back. I'd say next year's defense is Nick, Rafi, Kronwall, Stuart, Ericsson, Kindl, Meech.

You think Getz, with a career high of 25 goals and only 2 really good seasons, is better offensively than Iginla, one of the most dangerous scorers of our era? And what linemates did Iggy have that were any better than Perry+anyone the Ducks put with them?

A third line of Leino-Williams-Bertuzzi/Cleary/Homer could also put up a lot of points. And there isn't any rule that says the third line has to be a checking line. Happy-Flip-Sammy wasn't exactly a shut-down combo, nor would Leino-Flip-Willy be one. A 4th line of Helm-Eaves-Draper/Maltby is much better defensively than what we had last year, and the top two lines will be great defensively with pretty much any combinations we use, so having a offense-oriented third line isn't a problem. The 20% drop in Hank's production last year should be all the incentive needed to put he and Pav back together again, but Babs seems to want them separated. If he's going to insist on doing it, I hope he puts Mule with Hank. They seem to work well together. I can't imagine Flip being very successful playing wing, but it might help him learn to shoot more. Might be interesting to see Pav move to a sniper role with Flip as the playmaker.

With Nick turning 40 by the end of the season (and suffering from tendinitis) and Rafalski turning 36 shortly, we'll likely need to replace both within a few years. Add in Lilly's injury, and the weakness of Lebda and Meech, and we need Kindl to follow Ericsson. With back to back strong post-seasons, I'd say a Stuart trade is highly unlikely, especially considering the above, unless we got a proven top-4 defenseman in return. Maybe if he has another sub-par regular season and a poor playoff this year.

Kovalchuk a bit above Iggy Getz needs at least one more dominant year and/or improved goal scoring before I'll consider him top ten, though it's looking like he'll take this spot.

How about if you also had to trade Kronwall and Ericsson for prospects in order to afford it?

Kovalchuk Hard to argue against 5 straight 40+ goal seasons

With 13 forwards on the roster, Meech's ability to be a terrible forward as well as a terrible defenseman isn't that important. Besides, I'm sure Lebda could suck as a forward if we really needed him to. He does a good job sucking on defense. But as Icesurfer already noted, neither player makes enough to cover how much we're over the cap. So if Lilja plays this season, we would still need to move someone else, either via trade or assignment to GR.

Malkin

Wings win 50+ again, and the Central, and the Cup Anaheim or Calgary miss the playoffs Hank scores 90+, wins the Selke Pav breaks 100 Leino starts hot, but fades early Lilja doesn't play again Homer scores 25+ goals, retires after season anyway Pronger becomes the most hated man in Pittsburgh Washington wins the PT, loses in first round One of the big 3 (Russia, Canada, Sweden) will not win a medal

Filppula - 21-35-56 Cleary - 26-28-54 Bertuzzi - 21-31-52 Williams - 19-26-45 Leino - 16-12-28 Eaves - 9-13-22 It's as much about how I hope players are used as how I expect them to be. Leino and Williams mostly on the third line, Eaves on the 4th, Cleary and Bert moving around on all the top 3 lines, Flip 2nd line. Just as likely that Cleary spends most of his time with Pav and Hank and so gets another 10-15 points.

Datsyuk I just don't think that the small offensive advantage that Malkin/Crosby (or OV for that matter) have over him makes up for the defensive disparity.

Lidstrom, again

1. Lidstrom

Unsurprising. Had to comment on the bolded portion above. Just strikes me as funny, since his althetic ability isn't at all relevant to the case. I guess I should think it's sad the priviledge we afford pro athletes.

Not sure if anyone mentioned it already or not, but I'd like to point out the irrelevance of a NTC in terms of idle speculation from fans regarding trading a player, especially considering team management has never given any indication of willingness to trade said player. It's not really any less likely for Stuart to approve a hypothetical trade than it is for the teams involved in said hypothetical to agree on it in the first place. Might be different if the team had expressed a desire to trade him, or asked him to waive his NTC. That said, the reason to trade him is that we have an exceptional corps of defensemen, and if we traded him for a solid stay-at-home Lilja-esque type we would still be very good and could free up 2-ish million or more in cap space. Not sure how that would really help anything now, maybe before we signed Willy and Bert, but whatever...

I don't think it's any different than any other year. Pretty much any year, the majority of playoff teams can be considered contenders. Testament to the great parity in the league. Doesn't seem to me that any of the Western teams have improved all that much, nor have the Wings declined as much as some suggest. It will be a tough road (again), but I don't see anything to suggest that the Wings aren't still the cream of the western crop. Sure, we have questions and need guys to step up...but so does everyone else. Blackhawks traded Havlat for Hossa and made some minor moves at the bottom of the roster, and have a big question mark in goal. Experience will improve them some, but I think the playoffs showed they were much farther behind us than the regular season indicated. Calgary got Bouwmeester, but still rely too heavily on Iginla for scoring. And outside of that Finals year, Kipper hasn't looked at all special. Vancouver is solid, but they go where Luongo takes them. No different than last year. Anaheim took a step back on defense, but added some more offense up front. Shouldn't be any more of a challenge than last year, and that's assuming Hiller doesn't falter (or accidentally put on pads that fit...). The Sharks don't even have a full roster yet, and they're over the cap. I'll reserve judgement on them until I see what Wilson does. St.Louis with a healthy Kariya could be a dark horse, but they were pretty far behind. They'll be good I'm sure, but I don't think I'd call them a real contender. Columbus, Dallas, Edmonton, and LA (and maybe Nashville) will probably all be fighting for the last playoff spot, but none look all that dangerous. Sure, if they get hot at the right time they could pull an upset, but you could say that about any team. All in all, if the Wings stay healthy and play with focus, they should win both the Central and the West (depending on what happens with the Sharks), and maybe another President's trophy. In the playoffs, we'll likely have to go through at least two very good teams, and at least one trip west. Tough for sure, but not unusually so...not like it's ever easy. A 4th straight long playoff run is even harder, but they wouldn't be the first team to do it. Wouldn't even be the first time for a handful of current Wings. We have at least as good a chance as anyone, and better certainly than most.

I would hope that for the regular season, both Pav and Hank are used sparingly on the PK. Keep their minutes down as much as possible; save them for the playoffs. Interestingly enough, and bear in mind our PK wasn't good last year, Maltby was our best PKer statistically speaking. (Though he probably didn't see much time against top PP lines.) Flip was just behind him, and did play against top lines. Draper was the worst of our regular forwards. Last year, PK pairs were usually determined by who was the freshest. We didn't really have regular pairs. By PK time per game, we had Draper, Cleary, Hank, Flip, Pav, Maltby, and Mule, with Helm getting decent time while he was here. (Not counting players who left.) Helm should now be a regular, and possibly Eaves. Maltby did well in his reduced role last year, should be OK there again, and Drapes could probably do well with similarly reduced time. Flip and Cleary should probably be the top pair. Save Pav and Hank for key situations or when everyone else is tired. Franzen isn't a very good PKer. He's too slow and doesn't block shots or fill passing lanes very well for a guy his size. With 7 or 8 other options, he propbably doesn't need to see much time. Defense pairs worry me a bit. I'd like to see Lidstrom's ice time cut, he is almost 40 after all. Rafi's not a good PKer, Lilja's hurt, Ericsson's a rookie, Lebda and Meech are terrible. That leaves Kronner and Stuie, and if they take the regular season off again, our PK will probably be just as bad as last year. On the PP, like it or not Williams will play the point. Babs loves a rightie. Nick, Rafi, and Kronwall being the other 3 d-men. Pav, Hank, and Mule are sure bets at forward, with Cleary and Flip almost certain (though it wouldn't surprise me to see either taken off). Homer and Bert will probably be there depending on health and effectiveness, and Leino will likely get some looks. The PP will certainly be good, assuming key players like Nick, Rafi, Hank, Pav, and Mule stay reasonably healthy, but a step down from last year. We downgraded 3 key players, and some of our best are another year older.

It's as relevant as comparing the first three regular seasons. And I would hardly call the Wings of the last 3 years 'infinitely' superior to the teams in Datsyuk's first 5 years. Wings finished the regular season in the top 3 every year, 2 long playoff runs with one Cup in Pav's first 5 years. In 4 of those 5 years, they were either 1st or second in goals for in the regular season. The one year they weren't was Pav's best, and Flip's first. Also, in each of Pav's first 4 years they scored more than they did in either of Flip's first two. Fact is, all those teams were highly talented on offense and legit Cup contenders, and a big part of the reason they didn't have longer playoff runs in some of those years was because of Pavel getting shut down. More to the point though, since I know and already said Flip isn't Datsyuk, is that stats often don't tell the whole story. I could have also pointed out that this past playoff, Flip, in a lesser role, was out-producing Pav even before his injury.

Absolutely hilarious that there's such heated debate over a 5-10 point difference in assumed potential. Around 90 forwards scored at a 60+ point pace last season. Another 15 - 20 were fairly close, close enough that a couple decent games could have put them over the edge. For an above average player on a good offensive team, 60 is not an amazing number...and a long, long way from 'elite'. Check your straw man at the door, no one is suggesting Flip is a super star.

While I agree that Flip is no Datsyuk, there's a tremendous gap between '35-40' points and Pav. I think you're selling Flip quite a bit short. I, like Babs and Kenny, think Flip can be a consistent 60+ point player, and still be very good defensively. And remember, Pav came in to a much better situation. You say Flip's stats were inflated because of the team (ignoring the fact that he didn't play much with the top lines), so you also have to acknowledge that Pav pretty much won the lottery when the Wings picked him up. How many young centers get to play on a team full of future Hall of Famers, with one of the best snipers in the history of the game (even if over the hill) on their wing? Flip's not a great goal scorer, but he could net 20-25 a year...it's not 2001 any more, the game has opened up quite a bit. He's an excellent, if not particularly fast, skater; has decent size; handles the puck very well; plays a great transition game; finds open shooters... He just needs to play with more confidence, shoot more, use his size more/play harder around the net, and try more often to make plays instead of passes (by that I mean less of the safe but unproductive passes back to the blue line and more 'jam the puck down low and try to make something happen'). Developing some chemistry with a winger as Pav did with Hank would be a huge help. Again, he's not Pav, but I think it's a bit pessimistic to think a 25 year old who spent most of the year on the third line has plateaud. [edit] And how about this: Datsyuk first 5 playoffs years: 60 games - 11g - 20a Flip first 3 playoffs years: 63 games - 11g - 21a

How awful. My condolences to the family.

Well, I was originally thinking of putting Ovechkin there until I remembered he's not on our team. Seriously, with our roster, what options are that much better? Franzen certainly, but that's kind of putting all our eggs in one basket. Cleary probably, but again I think he'd be of more use elsewhere. Homer? Leino? Williams? How about you tell us which 6 forwards on this team are so much better than Bert that putting him on a top line is so ridiculous.

The lines will certainly change from time to time, but I think there will be some regularity to it. Pav and Hank together again. We probably have enough talent to split them again, but I think Babs will go back to the 'winning' formula. You could put pretty much anyone in the third spot, but Homer, Cleary, and Bertuzzi would offer the best compliment. (I exclude Franzen since he's needed on the 2nd line.) My preference would be Homer, since that's the best chance of making him an effective player. 2nd choice would be Bert, for much the same reason. Pav and Hank will get the most out of him, mask his defensive deficiencies, and maybe benefit from having a fairly tough guy on the ice with them. Cleary's defensive skills are best used elsewhere, so he'd be my third choice. Leino could make for an interesting choice as well. If Pav and Hank are together, the 2nd line needs Flip and Mule. Flip's our next best center, and Franzen our only other proven scorer. Much like the top line, you can fill the open wing with a lot of guys. Homer could work here, Cleary, Bertuzzi, Leino, and even Williams. I'd love to see Leino make that spot, but probably not likely. Maybe year after next. Cleary would probably be best, since he would make that a very solid defensive unit, and he's most familiar with Flip and Mule, though dropping him to the 3rd line would really help bolster the defensive strength. Williams I think would do well here, and much like Bert on the top line, some of his defensive failings would be hidden. For the bottom two lines, you have 4 players who can potentially play center in Helm, Draper, Williams, and Leino, with Willy and Ville making the best wingers. It's tough to find two combinations that look good to me. A pairing of Helm and Eaves sounds excellent, but nothing else really stands out to me. Cleary would be great on that wing, Draper/Maltby would work, Bert would be interesting, even Leino or Homer could fit. Problem is that with the exception of Draper/Maltby, all the others would suffer offensively. So... Scoring line 1 - Hank - Pav - Homer/Bert Scoring line 2 - Mule - Flip - Cleary/Leino Scoring line 3 - Bert/Cleary - Williams/Helm - Leino/Cleary/Williams Checking line - Draper/Maltby - Helm/Draper - Eaves 3 lines that are strong defensively, one weak that could be matched up against weak offensive lines.