Buppy

In fairness, it was a goal that he scored. If Mantha had scored like Larkin did in his first 10 games, he would still be in the lineup. Instead he scored like Larkin did in his last 10 games. Not to say that Andersson (or Jurco or Pulkkinen) would be any better, but I don't think it's a matter of choosing defense over offense like most people seem to think. More defense over potential offense plus bad defense.

Mantha hasn't done much of anything in the time he was in. 2g, 3p in 10 games, spending 81% of his ice-time with Datsyuk. To say he "provides offense" is a stretch. He has potential, but let's not act like he's been anything special. No one's throwing him under the bus. This quote isn't even critical, just a statement of fact. Funny; when Mantha failed to live up to the hype last year people said the expectations were too high. If someone were to say now that his 2 goals in 10 games was disappointing people would jump to defend him. But saying we shouldn't expect him to be the answer is throwing him under the bus?

40+ points is worth $4M+, goal short of 20 or not. Especially for a guy as versatile as Abby. In the last 69 games of the season, he had as many points as Zetterberg.

So subtle he created the second goal without even being on the ice. Ingenious.

Scenarios for tomorrow: Win = In Loss in shootout = Need 1 point .vs NY Loss in OT = Need win .vs NY Loss in regulation = Need ROW .vs NY All assuming Boston and Philly win their remaining games.

Mantha isn't worth more than Nyquist. The proposed package was overpayment, if anything, though it would likely take overpayment to get the Jets to trade him. There's no risk in Trouba. At least no more than bringing in any new player. While I agree that OEL and Faulk would be far more expensive, not sure than Fowler or Shattenkirk would be. Maybe a little more, but I'd bet not a lot. Anaheim has found their offense since the new year, so I think it's less likely that they move one of their young D. But if they did it would probably be for something similar to that Trouba offer. Personally, I would prefer Vatanen, but any of their kids would be nice. I think if the Blues were willing to move Shattenkirk, I think it would also be for a similar package. They've also been scoring a ton lately, so I'm not sure it's likely, but their defense and goaltending is better than the Ducks, so I think maybe a bit more likely. The Jets are pretty much below average to downright bad at everything, so I'm not sure that package would be that appealing to them, even though it's more than fair. Hard to imagine they could get anything that would be more valuable than Trouba to their rebuild, but I'd think if he doesn't want to be there or they're worried about the expansion draft, they'd probably be looking for multiple picks. Like a Hamilton-type deal.

Couple minor corrections:If we beat Boston in a shootout, we would need 2 points to guarantee a spot. If Boston beats us in a SO, we would need either 4 points or 3 with a ROW. Reason is in those scenarios, Boston either wins or ties the season series, and they would win goal differential. We're currently only one ROW ahead. So we need either more points or to match them in both points and ROW.

I believe that article is incorrect. Cap recapture only applies to to long-term contracts.

You're the one who brought up Schenn's offensive numbers, I just pointed out that they aren't good despite where they'd rank on our team. If you want to talk defense, his numbers are worse than anyone on our team.

Not sure where you're getting those numbers, but they're wrong. At even strength, he's actually above everyone, not that it means anything. He has the exact same stat line as Ericsson, but plays about 1/2 a minute less per game so he's marginally ahead in /60. Overall he'd be 4th, marginally below Smith and slightly above Dekeyser. Regardless, being as good as some bad offensive players means he's also bad offensively. Hardly worth noting. There's a lot I could go into in regards to advanced metrics that show that Schenn is not any better than anyone on our team (and probably worse), but not going to bother. Agree to disagree. As to your first comment, let's not get fallacious. No one is saying that and you know it. Yes, we need to improve, and everyone knows we'll need to change some players. But a good way to not improve is to give away too much of what we already have.

Sure, I have no problem starting Howard for now. That wasn't the topic of that line of discussion though.

Lombardi and Sutter are paying him $1.8m to be a third pair guy, not $5m to play second. If he's so good and they're so great, why do you think they'll let him walk?Even if, and it's a big if, Mantha and Backes could replace Nyquist and Tatar, you still haven't improved at F. Which is what I said. Sign Schenn and you aren't going to improve the forwards. Even if you think it would cost Nyq+Tatar+Smith to get a top D, and that Backes+Mantha would replace them, we'd still be better off going with a cheap kid over Schenn and actually adding something at F.

No. They can't. Maybe we could move one for some improvement on D, then hope to offset that loss via UFA. Even that is unlikely. No chance in hell for both. But this is getting a bit far afield from my original point. Schenn isn't good, and would be a waste of money.

Tatar? Sure you're not thinking of Pulkkinen? Or maybe Nyquist? I would disagree either way, but it just seems a particularly odd opinion to have about Tatar.

Wasn't assuming anything. The list of players you gave in your hypothetical $24M in free cap scenario did not include Nyquist or Tatar. Even in the unlikely event that the cap rises more than expected and we get rid of Howard without retaining anything and we fill the backup G and scrub spots for ~$4M, then spend $10-13M on defense, you're looking at replacing Nyquist and Tatar for $7-10M. You're not going to get anything better than them in that price range, and even if you get something about as good, we still haven't actually improved at forward. So again, signing Schenn as well someone that's actually good on defense is not only extremely unlikely, but also comes at the expense of upgrading at forward. But affordability aside, Schenn is just not that good. Even if we were struggling to hit the cap floor I wouldn't want him.

So your perfect world is getting rid of Nyquist and Tatar. For Schenn.Awesome

Not every game in that span has been bad, nor did he play bad in all the games where his stats have been bad. He's been pulled 4 times, though I don't think he was really bad in all of them.

Not sure what your perfect world is, but in the real world we have about $16M before resigning our RFAs, assuming the rumored $73-74M cap. Signing DD and Mrazek is likely half of that. Getting rid of Smith and Howard, and LTIR for Franzen we could maybe get to $12-13M without doing anything at F, but that's optimistic. So I'll amend my "no way" to "extremely unlikely, and only at the expense of doing anything worthwhile at F".

Schenn is not better than Quincey, Smith, or Ericsson. There's also no way we could ever afford a #1D and Schenn without getting rid of Ericsson at least, and even that probably wouldn't be enough.

There's nothing newsworthy about rumor-mongering, "some validity" or not. It's an insult to the institution of journalism to claim there is. Thankfully, it's generally harmless, and somewhat entertaining.

Hasn't been 6 weeks. A few bad games. And most of the bad games, for both goalies, have been equally bad or worse defense.All goalies have bad games, and games where the defense makes them look bad. Mrazek has had less than most, and comparable to the top goalies this year.

I wouldn't consider Holtby better than CuJo. We can still catch Philly, but yeah, seems much more likely that if we get in it'd be by passing Boston.

Technically, the team is better offensively with AA on the ice than Datsyuk, and we've been a disaster defensively with Mantha on the ice. Mantha has only been getting 4th-line minutes anyway, and I doubt that will change. I don't like Richards moving up with Datsyuk over Tatar/Nyquist, or even Sheahan, but I think moving down could be good for Mantha.

That's assuming all the wins are in regulation or OT.

Actually, we haven't finished in the bottom third in offense any year yet. 20th, 16th, and 10th the last three years. Still three out four years below average, but I think krsmith is talking more about the talent level of our forwards. If Larkin, AA, and Mantha can step up to replace what Datsyuk and Zetterberg used to be, it would be an improvement. Maybe not an improvement over what we were when D & Z were in their prime, but so what. We were a cup contender back then. But that's a pretty big if. Until it happens, I agree, we still need two high-end forwards. Defense we really only need one, but he needs to be a really good one. Probably need some tweaks beyond that for cap reasons, and then another good one before long to replace Kronwall. We do not need 2-3 high-end d-men by next year, unless by high-end you mean just "pretty good".