Buppy

McGrattan can kill rock and roll and touch MC Hammer. He could also buy love, but he doesn't have to.

McGrattan once won a staring contest against the Mona Lisa.

If Brian McGrattan had a nickel for every time he's had his ass kicked, he'd be $infinity in debt.

Wait, are you saying he'll have multiple 30+ goal/60+ point seasons?

The ca[ hit for E isn't bad, but O don't think many teams would have much interest in taking in a 31yo for 5 years unless that player was really good or really cheap. I don't necessarily think he's unmovable, but we'd likely have to retain some portion of it.

Payroll is rarely a good indicator of team quality. That's kind of the whole point of the cap. Get everyone spending close enough to the same amount so that everyone can be competitive. Secondly, our cap situation has nothing to do with losing any kids. We have enough space to fill the roster. Even if Nyquist was paying $4.75M, we'd still have to waive someone. Do you have a source for Marchenko? I haven't heard anything about him being dissatisfied. Yeah, Tatar will get a nice raise if he continues to perform. He would have gotten a nice raise even if Nyquist had signed for $3M. It's reality. Signing Gus cheap wouldn't have reset the league standards. Regardless of what you think, $5M is not superstar money. It's Nyquist/Tatar-level money. In two years when he's up for renewal, it will probably be a little higher. Finally, Ferraro, Andersson, and Callahan are not our depth. They're plugs, and most likely none of them have a future here, and maybe not even much of one anywhere in the NHL. If Franzen plays 20 games he'll be more valuable than all those guys combined. Sure, if he goes on LTIR, we could keep Ferraro or Andersson around for a year. Then next summer we can all ***** about those guys still being here when we should be giving Larkin, Mantha, Athanasiou, Bertuzzi, Nosek or Nastasiuk a chance.

That was last year. We're moving on to Landog now.

Re-read that. Babcock was no longer with Anaheim when Fedorov was traded.

Babcock was no longer with Anaheim when Fedorov was traded, he had nothing to do with that. Nor, I'm sure, did Babcock's previous experience with Fedorov have anything to do with not wanting to trade for him. And that doghouse is largely an overblown fan creation.

I think you misunderstand. By "non-Wing" I meant a season in which he did not play for the Wings.And as you say, that season (the one and only season he played for Babcock) he did well. What makes you say Babcock couldn't figure him out our that he was in the doghouse?

It's easy to blame Babcock. Now that he's gone, if we can convince ourselves that everything was his fault it gives us reason to be optimistic. LW also tends to ignore reality at times. Like with Fedorov. The one season he played for Babcock was the one non-Wing season he had that was similar to his production with the Wings. But Babcock couldn't figure him out, misused him, and didn't want him on the Wings. Because then that's why he never came back, and why his number isn't retired, and now that Babs is gone there's hope for the future.

You're making a lot of assumptions. Ferraro was near the bottom in ice time, as was Andersson. Not really sure that you can conclude much from him playing them slightly more than Weiss and Jurco. You're also assuming that he there aren't players in Toronto that he'll like. And even if it's true that Toronto would claim them, so what? They're 4th in the claim order. Why would they trade for someone they'd be practically certain to get for free?

Thing is, this will be Nyquist's third contract. It's already the "next negotiations". He didn't do much in the NHL on his first deal, so didn't earn much for his second. But he VASTLY out-performed that second deal. Tatar by contrast showed little in his first callups, but had a solid rookie year, and earned nearly 3 times what Nyquist got for his 2nd deal. Some RFA deals in the cap era for reference: Datsyuk: 2nd contract, 3 seasons, 209 games, 53g (.25), 154p (.74), 39 playoff games, 3g (.08), 12p (.31) = $3.9M x 2 yrs, cap at the time $39M (cap adjusted $7.14M) Zetterberg: 2nd contract, 2 seasons, 140 games, 37g (.26), 87p (.62), 16 playoff games, 3g (.19), 5p (.31) = $2.65M x 4 yrs, cap $39M (cap adjusted $4.85M) Hudler: 2nd contract, 1 season+, 92 games, 16g (.17), 28p (.30), 6 playoff games, 0g, 2p (.33) = ~$1M x 2 yrs, cap $50.3M (cap adjusted ~$1,4M) Hudler: 3rd contract, 3 seasons+, 255 games, 52g (.20), 127p (.50), 51 playoff games, 9g (.18), 28p (.55) = *$2.875 x 2 yrs, cap $56.8M (adjusted ~$3.6M) Filppula: 2nd contract, 2 seasons, 155 games, 29g (.19), 54p (.35), 40 playoff games, 8g (.20), 16p (.40) = $3M x 5 yrs, cap $56.7M (adjusted ~$3.8M) Franzen: 2nd contract, 1 season, 80 games, 12g (.15), 16p (.20), 6 playoff games, 1g (.17), 3p (.50) = $~940k x 3 yrs, cap $44M (~$1.5M) Tatar: 2nd contract, 1 season+, 100 games, 24g (.24), 47p (.47), 5 playoff games, 0g, 0p = $2.75 x 3, cap $69M (~$2.85M) Helm: 2nd contract, 1 season+, 98 games, 11g (.11), 25p (.26), 53 playoff games, 7g (.13), 10p (.19) = ~$900k x 2, cap $59.4M (~$1.1M) Helm: 3rd contract, 3 seasons+, 248 games, 32g (.13), 83p (.33), 65 playoff games, 10g (.15), 16p (.25)= $2.125 x 4, cap *$70.2M Abby: 3rd contract, 2 seasons+, 209 games, 18g (.09), 47p (.22), 37 playoff games, 3g (.08), 5p (.14)= $1.8M x 4, cap *$70.2M Nyquist's stats: 179 games, 59g (.33), 115p (.64), 30 playoff games, 3g (.10), 7p (.23) Closest comparable production-wise is Zetterberg. Slightly worse regular season, but better playoff. I don't think at that point he had played much center, but probably considered better defensively. Ice time/role at that stage was comparable, though Hank was doing some PK time. Hudler could also be considered comparable, but I suspect that contract was artificially low due to him heading to the KHL. In light of that, plus recent RFA deals, $4.5M seems both fair market-wise and is consistent with past deals. Tatar probably should have gotten more, and Abby a little less. In both cases likely due to the amount of experience.

I think Ferraro would still clear; it's not like he's done anything particularly notable since last season. But that's really beside the point. Even if he would get claimed it doesn't mean anyone would be willing to trade anything for him. Why would they? There will be plenty of players as good or better on waivers (including Ferraro himself, or Andersson) plus UFAs, prospects of their own... Ferraro isn't any good. The only reason people like him now is because he isn't Andersson. Very similar to a couple years ago when people liked Andersson for not being Emmerton.

Lol. Yeah, outside of his $26 MILLION in bonuses. From 94-95 through 02-03 he was paid almost as much as Yzerman, and more than Lidstrom. You make it sound like he was doing charity work playing for us

If "upgrading" from Quincey to Franson is anyone's idea of "pie", that person needs to meet some better bakers. Obviously we aren't going to walk away from Nyquist. But in regards to the waiver thing, you do know that Quincey is the only player of note we ever lost on waivers. Maybe Nestrasil will turn out to be another. However, none of them had any real trade value at the time they were lost.

So basically you're saying you'd rather give up Nyquist now than maybe have to give up someone like Nyquist in the future? First off, $5-6M is not superstar money. Second, a bridge deal would make the potential problem worse by making him UFA sooner, all to save a little money we probably won't need. Three, if it comes down to having too many players performing too well, I think we'll be very lucky even though we probably won't be able to keep everyone. Like I already said, we have $4.5ish this year already. We could probably squeeze out another $500k-1M+ without trading anyone, more if we could move Kindl. For the year after, assuming Jurco and Pulkkinen both sign 2 year deals for around $1M each, Nyquist @ $5M, and even assuming no increase in the cap we have ~$17M to resign/replace Mrazek, Dekeyser, Helm, Abby, Sheahan, Quincey, Miller, Richards, and Andy/Ferraro. The last 4 spots should be cheap. Resigning the first 5 for $12M isn't going to happen, but it wouldn't happen for $13.5 either. We can gain some by dumping Kindl and going with another kid, possibly do the same with Smith, or look to move Ericsson or Green. If Mrazek does well enough to warrant a big raise, he'll have done well enough to allow us to move Howard. Similarly, if Sheahan does well enough to get a big raise, we could afford to lose Helm or Abby (particularly true if other young guys like Tatar and Pulkkinen are successful). It's highly unlikely that an extra $1-2.5M over the next two years costs us anything we really don't want to lose. After that, you'd be giving Nyquist even more money or letting him walk, the same or worse than paying him now.

For skaters, players are exempt for: signed at 18: exempt for 5 years after signing or 160 NHL games signed at 19: exempt for 4 years or 160 NHL games signed at 20: exempt for 3 years or 160 NHL games signed at 21: exempt for 3 years or 80 NHL games signed at 22: exempt for 3 years or 70 NHL games signed at 23: exempt for 3 years or 60 NHL games signed at 24: exempt for 2 years or 60 NHL games signed at 25 or older: exempt for 1 year regardless of games played For goaltenders, players are exempt for: signed at 18: exempt for 6 years after signing or 80 NHL games signed at 19: exempt for 5 years or 160 NHL games signed at 20: exempt for 4 years or 80 NHL games signed at 21: exempt for 4 years or 80 NHL games signed at 22: exempt for 4 years or 60 NHL games signed at 23: exempt for 3 years or 60 NHL games signed at 24: exempt for 2 years or 60 NHL games signed at 25 or older: exempt for 1 year regardless of games played You can use generalfanager.com to see when a player signed his first contract. In most cases, the first year of the first contract is also the first year of waiver exemption. There are some exceptions, but usually they only apply to kids who will be in the NHL before their exemption runs out anyway. (Ex: Larkin gets 5 years, but I'm not sure if last year counts as one. However, if he were to play 11 NHL games next year or the year after, it would reduce to 3 years, with that season counting as the first. But he'll most likely make the Wings in 1-3 years regardless so probably doesn't matter.)

And more importantly won't be playing for the Wings and so won't affect our cap.

Most likely won't even get that far, but if it does I can't see the Wings walking away from whatever award he gets. Even if he got $6M we wouldn't give him up for nothing. If you would give him up rather than pay anything over $3M...well, can't say what I think of that. We have about $6.75M once Meile, Ferraro, Ouellet, and Marchenko are sent down. Slightly more if we send Andersson down instead of Ferraro, and/or Kindl instead of one of the kids.

I don't think anyone around here believes Saad is worth $6M. The Wings are normally pretty generous with RFAs, but we haven't really had any that have put up the numbers Nyquist has either, and now it seems RFAs are getting UFA money. I'm still going with around $4.5M, since that's what we can afford without moving anyone. Might have to go short-term to get that. If we do that and he keeps up his production, we could be looking at $7M+ in a couple years. I think I'd rather go higher and get a better term.

Only 43, but scoring was higher in Maltby's day. Did have 57 total OHL+AHL, regular + playoffs. Still counts I think.

Sending down Meile, Ferraro, Marchenko, and Ouellet gives us just over $6.75M. Jurco and Pulkkinen shouldn't cost much over $2M for both, so $4.5ish for Gus would be good. I'd hope for 5 years. In light of Saad and O'Reilly, he might want more than that, which we could do but we'd have to clear some space.

Even without last year his career numbers are better than anyone on our team that's taken more than 4 shots. Among active players who've taken at least 20, he'd still be 6th. I get thinking that he's overrated and/or not wanting him on the team. But saying he's not good in the shootout is like saying Tyler Myers isn't tall because he's overrated.

I don't think it will change much for him. Converted or not, I'm fairly sure that he's spent more time at center at this point, and our system is pretty fluid. He'll still be busting his ass every shift. Playing with Datsyuk, regardless of which is at center, should help. But if he's not with Pav, he'll still be "the man" and still doing most of the work offensively and backchecking hard, even from the wing. Maybe Nyquist could take another step and start taking more of the load off as well. Hopefully someone at least will step up enough that we can keep Pav and Hank together, would be good for both of them I think.