Buppy

Well, that isn't what I said, so... $2000 for embellishment. Pay up.

Smith and Kindl hardly seems like enough for Colorado to give up O'Reilly. And I wouldn't give up Smith, Pulkkinen, and a 2nd for Myers. Sure he's big and RH, but he's not very physical, not much of a shot blocker, and his offense has pretty much declined every year. Probably get better production from Pulkkinen on the point.

Smart enough to be more subtle about it, maybe, but more or less yeah.

Diving, or at least embellishment, is already commonplace and accepted. Several times every game. A lot of it minor, like throwing up the arms or throwing the head back when being hooked/held or high-sticked, some blatant like this dive, some subtle, like clamping an elbow over someone's stick to embellish a hook... Like the old axiom, "if you ain't cheating, you ain't trying". Embellishment works, plain and simple. Everyone does it. Some worse than others of course, but even Pav and Hank do it. Nick, Yzerman... I really doubt there's even a single player who won't try to get one over on the refs if he thinks he can. Players should be ashamed of themselves, but on the other hand I can't really blame them. Winning is everything after all. Kudos though to the league for finally trying to do something about it. Not going far enough I think, but at least it's a start. Personally, I don't think it will end until it's no longer effective. Embellishment should negate the original penalty, or be a double-minor if there was no penalty. And if a team gets caught doing it too often they should lose points.

You might also include Quincey and Legwand. And the league hasn't changed so drastically that we can't still draw a comparison. No, we didn't do it all the time (even pre-cap), but neither has Pittsburgh.

Stuart, Bertuzzi, Lang, Schneider, Chelios, Clark... Maybe more.

Not saying we should have made this trade, but it's the same kind of thing we used to do. When you feel like your team is on the cusp, you make tweaks, often giving up some future for something to help today. Nice trade for the Pens. Not sure what Edm thinks they're trying to do though, decent value but not what they need.

Then he should have stayed. Doesn't seem anyone asked him to go. By all reports it was his choice. Regardless of how you want to spin it, he was playing. He was getting opportunities. He would have continued to receive playing time. Maybe not every game, though he might have gotten there with time. You keep acting like we brought him over here, locked him in a closet without letting him even sniff the ice, then launched him back home when he complained. He got, was getting, and would have kept getting opportunities. He will get more in the future should he choose to come back (assuming we don't trade him). I don't think anyone is saying he's a bust based on his performance. Probably has no future in Detroit, but that's just because there isn't that much room, and others are currently doing better. But I will say that if a player can't handle being benched for a few games here and there while developing, that player probably doesn't have a chance at the NHL. Maybe a star player, someone clearly better than his competition, could have that attitude, but not someone like Backman.

Stop exaggerating. He was scratched 7 out of 25 games. He wasn't sitting for weeks at a time or playing once a month. He wasn't mistreated, nothing was mismanaged. He gave up, that's it.

Making a big deal over nothing. Sproul's been scratched. Jensen's been scratched. Jurco was scratched. Glendening spent part of a year in Toledo. Ton more examples if anyone cared to look for them. Sometimes players get scratched. That's reality. It's not like it was every game, or even long stretches of games. If he couldn't handle sitting occasionally while learning a new system and adjusting to his first season in America, then he wasn't going to make it, no matter how coddled he was. He was a longshot to ever make the Wings (much less be a player of any impact) the day he was drafted. With the guys ahead of him, probably even more of one this year despite the promise he's shown. If he never comes back it's no great loss. The team is not, and should not be, in the business of babying every two-bit prospect we come across.

For the record, he played 18 out of 25 games this year. The primary purpose of the AHL may be to develop players, but they are also trying to win. Learning that the team comes first, how to compete, how to win, are also important parts of development. If the kid couldn't handle being scratched for 7 games he had no real chance anyway. Maybe he'll grow up a bit, improve some more, and try again next year. Or maybe like tons of other picks his chance is over.

I get it, and yeah it seems odd that a developmental team would give a spot to a non-prospect over one with decent potential. But we also have 5 decent prospects who all run out of waiver exemption after next season, plus two kids on the roster, plus two vets under contract and worth keeping. All of our prospects aren't going to play in Detroit even if they all prove to be good enough. Two or three maybe.

He's also behind Kronwall, Ericsson, Dekeyser, Smith, Quincey, and apparently, Paetch and Evans. If he's our 5th best prospect currently in the AHL, the chances of him ever sniffing the Wings are practically nil, whether he's playing every night or not. You can say he's a very good prospect, but don't gloss over that he's also apparently unable to win a regular spot in an AHL lineup at the moment. Prospects wash out all the time. All over the league. 5th round picks do so much more often than not. I bet Gleason Fournier wasn't too happy that he sucked too much for the AHL, but he wasn't European so no one wrote a story about it. Did anyone here care? We feeling that loss? The pool of future NHL players is not going to say to themselves, "Hey, this one time, there was this one 5th round pick who couldn't win a regular AHL spot, and the Wings didn't go out of their way to make it easier for him. Those dicks, I'll never play there." It's not about anyone being over-ripe, or our development process taking too long, or any unfair treatment. There are spots in GR besides Ouellet's. If Backman can't win one of those other 5, he should be unhappy with himself, not with the organization. While my "why should we care" comment may have been flippant, and I'd certainly expect the organization to show more tact, I would much rather see them say, "Suck it up. Play better or have fun in Europe." than "Oh, sorry it's too hard for you, let me get one of these better players out of your way so you can play every day.".

Unless you're one of those who consider Mantha and Mrazek as sure-thing future stars, that package is not all that different from Carter to CBJ, nor too different from the Kessel or Seguin deals (value-wise). Not really that much more than Ott gave up for Ryan either. Sure, it's not uncommon for a good player to go cheaper than that, but it's not that outrageous for a young star either. I still say it's just not the kind of package Edm would be looking for. They already have plenty of young players with uncertain futures. It's not a typical sell-everything-for-kids rebuild situation. I could see something like the Nash deal, couple good roster players in their prime to balance out the lineup, plus a little extra. Or I could see a Seguin-type deal where they try to get a proven veteran star. Or maybe try to land a stud goalie.

Z doesn't have a no trade, which I think is what you're trying to say... And there's only so many roster spots, I can't imagine Edmonton would be looking for more of the same s*** they already have. I'd think they'd be looking for quality, not quantity, as well as some leadership to try to teach all the kids they have how to play. Then again, it's Edmonton. They might be hoping to trade Hall to themselves straight-up for Hall.

A realistic realistic package probably starts with Zetterberg. That's assuming EDM would even be interested in him.

While I certainly wouldn't object to getting rid of Kindl, I don't think we need to be so concerned about trying to manufacture an opportunity for Backman. It's not like he's buried behind 6 blue-chip studs. 4 not-too-dissimilar prospects and 2 career AHLers. If he can't win a regular spot in that situation, why should we care whether he's happy or not.

Take off and nuke the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

So you're saying Datsyuk was our 4th best forward, and Zetterberg 5th? Or are they also behind Mantha, etc.? Honestly, I'm starting to think you just have a retarded nephew and you're trying to make him feel like a genius...

You're reaching and also changing the scope of the argument. Nyquist is not as good as Franzen. Tatar is way behind. Jurco is no where near close. Mantha has yet to play a pro game. Weiss, who knows. Maybe all those guys will be better within a few years, maybe we'll sign a better UFA or make a trade. But right now, we have two forwards who are better than Franzen. Might as well say Datsyuk doesn't belong in the NHL because in 5 years we'll likely have 14 forwards better than him.

Sure, considering the complete set of positive integers, 2 is certainly very close to 6.

Really? Everyone's been talking about it for years? I'd wager that 95% of the people here hadn't even heard mention of it until this year, and even most of those that read the 2009 article the speculation is based on had probably forgotten about it. The whole thing started because Franzen gave a cryptic answer when asked about his injury, and some dips*** writer dug up a 4+ year old translated interview of Franzen talking about the social anxiety he dealt with early in his career in Sweden. Your assertion that his issues are affecting his game or causing him to miss time is 100% speculation.

Should be easy enough for them. He's signed through next season.

Maybe not the same offensive ceiling, but he's more of a two-way player and more importantly had already had a decent rookie season in the NHL. I'd say they're pretty similar in value. (Maybe Silfverberg has dropped a little now, since he didn't show much improvement in his second year.)

That's like saying, "If you can trade 3500 lbs of metal and plastic for a new car...". You can't. You can't even if you "package" it with 5 tons of crap either. You want a proven young player you're going to have to add a lot. Look at the Ryan trade. He's not even a great goal scorer and was already 26. Went for a Mantha-level prospect, plus another good prospect, plus a 1st. Aside from maybe a few overzealous fans here, no one is anointing him the second coming. And I think you and Dickie are over-valuing his trade value just as much as they are over-valuing his potential. His value may be higher than it's been in the past, but I'd say it's unlikely as high as it will get. Even moderate success in GR (or with the Wings) would move him up. Obviously, no one is literally untouchable. I assume when anyone says that it just means they don't believe said player would bring a worthy return. For me, Mantha, Sheahan, Sproul, Mrazek, and Pulkkinen are untouchable right now. Their skillsets are mostly unique in our prospect pool (Pulks is a little redundant). You'd have to really blow me away with an offer to get any of them.