Buppy

To be fair, Broberg didn't play against his peers. Allsvenskan is a men's pro league, and he was one of only 12 under-18s to play, the only one to play more than 13 games, played more games than the other 11 combined, and did it for one of the best teams in the league. I'm sure the stats of the top NA prospects would be considerably worse if they played in the AHL, or even just the worst half of it. And while it is a "2nd-tier" league, that might be a bit misleading. Sweden has relegation, and only 14 teams in the SHL. It's not like a minor league and he wasn't good enough to be called up to the top team. He played at the highest level of his organization. You need to show how Broberg will be better than Zegras/Cozens, not just that he'll maybe be able to score 30-40 points.

Impatient maybe, but we're about to make our 3rd top-10 pick. Our current best young players were all drafted while we were still a playoff team. Even without making any moves we could end up picking in the 10-20 range, if a couple more kids step up. If what we have already; Larkin, Mantha, AA, Bert, Ras, Zadina, Veleno, Hronek, Cholowski, McIssaac, whatever fringe prospects you want to include, the 6th OA, 4 more picks from 35-66, + whoever I'm forgetting; isn't enough then I don't think picking 5th instead of 19th in 2020 is going to fix anything.

I don't get why everyone thinks we should be awful again next year. I'm sick of it personally, I want to get back in the playoffs. We have some good young players, and promising prospects who could potentially be impact players as early as next year. Add a couple UFAs to shore up some weaknesses and I think we could be competitive. Not a huge Karlsson fan; despite his individual ability he doesn't seem to have that much impact on his teams. Gardiner or Myers could maybe be decent on the right contract, but a trade would be a better way to add a defenseman. Brodie would be good if he's actually available. Gost moving seems more likely now with Philly getting Niskanen. Trouba obviously. At forward I'd love to add Panarin. Probably not really worth what he's likely to get, but I think we're in a good enough spot that overpaying him wouldn't hurt us. I don't know if we could get him or not, but I'd sure try. Several other forwards who could at least add to our depth, and make for a better situation for any prospects we bring up. Let TB solve their Callahan problem themselves. He's worse than Abdelkader. I'd be willing to "help" Toronto with Marleau for the right price, though, since he's still a decent depth scorer. We only have 8 proven NHL forwards right now, and 4 of them are Neilsen, Helm, Abby, and Glendening. More than enough room to add one or two without taking anything from our top prospects. And that's without trading anyone. If we think we need a high 2020 pick to turn us around, we should just give up on this rebuild and stop wasting time. Trade Mantha, AA, Bert, and whatever else for as many picks as we can get.

Yeah, could look at Boqvist last year as a comparable situation. Hardly produced at all at the SHL/Allsvensken level, but was a point/game at the JR level. Comes to NA, and scores a point/game in the OHL. Not hard to imagine that Broberg might have more offense than he's shown. I'd be a little more concerned by some saying he occasionally tries to do too much/make plays he doesn't have the skill for, resulting in bad decisions/turnovers. Smith jokes aside though, I'd consider him if we were to trade down to say 9 or 11. Wouldn't be my top choice, but close enough to be OK with it. But at 6 with at least one of Turcotte, Byram, Zegras, or Cozens guaranteed to be there...

Last place at New Year, win Stanley Cup. That's as "around" as things can "turn". Thanks for ruining turn-arounds for everyone else, Blues. Also, I didn't get to say "Blost", so now I hate them. Bwon just doesn't work.

Plus questions about his decision making ability, called a "two-way defenseman" despite limited offensive production, would be a reach to draft him at our position... He screams Brendan Smith

Certainly a very early depiction, however, there have been similar stick-and-ball, field hockey style games dating back to BC times. I'm sure there have been precursor versions on ice for near that long.

He'd been rising lately. Still a fair chance of going top 10, and I'd be shocked if he falls out of the top 20. I'd still give him serious consideration at 6 if Turcotte, Zegras, and Byram are gone.

Top 31 - Summary of 13 of the latest prospect rankings. From http://www.mynhldraft.com/2019-nhl-draft/2019-nhl-draft-rankings/ (left out the NHLCS split lists for obvious reasons, and the Draft Analyst list from April on accident) Top31s Top10s High Low Avg 1 Jack Hughes 13 13 1 1 1.0 2 Kaapo Kakko 13 13 2 2 2.0 3 Bowen Byram 13 13 3 10 4.2 4 Alex Turcotte 13 13 3 10 4.5 5 Trevor Zegras 13 12 5 12 7.2 6 Kirby Dach 13 11 3 12 7.5 7 Dylan Cozens 13 10 4 14 8.1 8 Vasili Podkolzin 13 9 4 18 8.6 9 Peyton Krebs 13 9 6 13 9.0 10 Matthew Boldy 13 9 5 15 9.1 11 Cole Caufield 13 7 4 13 9.2 12 Philip Broberg 13 5 7 21 13.5 13 Alex Newhook 13 1 9 19 14.2 14 Cam York 13 1 9 22 15.1 15 Victor Soderstrom 13 2 8 28 16.2 16 Thomas Harley 13 0 11 29 19.1 17 Raphael Lavoie 13 0 14 31 20.2 18 Ryan Suzuki 13 0 14 29 20.8 19 Moritz Seider 12 2 9 OFF 17.8 20 Arthur Kaliyev 12 0 12 OFF 18.3 21 Bobby Brink 10 0 13 OFF 20.0 22 Ville Heinola 9 0 14 OFF 20.0 23 Philip Tomasino 9 0 17 OFF 20.9 24 Nils Hoglander 9 0 18 OFF 24.3 25 Samuel Poulin 9 0 23 OFF 26.0 26 Connor McMichael 8 0 22 OFF 26.9 27 Spencer Knight 7 0 15 OFF 21.4 28 Jakob Pelletier 7 0 14 OFF 24.0 29 Nicholas Robertson 7 0 18 OFF 26.6 30 Matthew Robertson 7 0 19 OFF 26.7 31 Tobias Bjornfot 6 0 19 OFF 26.0

Unfortunately, the recovery timeframe is 5-6 months, which does push into next year. He was most likely going back to JR anyway though, so it doesn't really matter, assuming he wasn't making it worse by playing.

Turcotte, Zegras, Cozens, Dach, Krebs, Podkolzin, Boldy, Caufield, Byram, + most people probably have at least a couple others they'd put in front of some of those kids. Going to be a good prospect available at 11. I'd do it, assuming resigning Konecny wouldn't be a problem.

So are 2nd round picks. Maybe I'd feel different if he had been given any real time in the AHL to show something, but 37 points in 139 games...

And three times as many points and was still garbage. 95% Pulju is a complete bust. There's a better chance of one of our 2nds turning into a star, and much better chance of getting at least a decent player. Worth a 4th or 5th or irrelevant "prospect" at most.

Yes, when you retain salary you also keep that part of the cap hit. Also, we have like $20M in cap space, more coming off soon, and a bunch of ELCs coming soon. Buying anyone out or even trading anyone is stupid.

Funny thing is that would barely be enough to sign Point plus fill out the rest of the roster. Have to dump Miller and Palat as well, unless Karlsson wants to play for free. Not saying TB is screwed or anything, since they have enough talent they can afford to lose some, but their cap situation is worse than Toronto.

Wow. You've been waiting six months to throw that line back at me. Or it just made such an impression that you stole it subconsciously. Either way I'm flattered. Also, anyone "convinced" that Trouba wants to come here isn't going to entertain trading anything for him, as they would of course believe we'd be getting him for nothing next summer. Anyone willing to trade for him would do so in order to have the best chance at signing him long-term. You just disagree on what constitutes a fair price.

Not sure what it is you're trying to argue. Do you think anyone is unaware that we're speculating? Or do you think that because it's speculation, it somehow means that your theory that he'll stay in WPG isn't? You gloss over him not committing to WPG, and don't even mention the two contentious negotiations he's had, as if those things don't give good cause to speculate about him leaving. Inertia is not going to keep him in WPG, staying is not the default. They have to convince him to stay or he will leave in a year. Their failure to sign him long-term when they've already had three (or six, technically) years to negotiate has to be taken as a sign of some kind of disconnect, at least when viewed along side his past two negotiations. Furthermore, it's not just Trouba's desires that come in to play. The Jets are not in a particularly great spot, and may be in their best interest to trade him even he did want to stay. They're going to lose some defense no matter what. Trading Trouba may allow them to sign both Myers and Chiarot, plus return a couple good assests. And none of that has anything to do with what kind of return they could get if they do move him.

Like I said, it's certainly speculation, but there's some good cause for it. From https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/jets-defenceman-jacob-trouba-comments-future-winnipeg/ Asked on Monday if he wanted to be a Winnipeg Jet for the long-term, Trouba was non-committal. “Same answer as always,” he said to the familiar question. “We’ll figure it out once things get going in the summer, what’s best, and move forward from there. We gotta sit down, have a meeting and figure out what to do moving forward. I haven’t really thought about it. I tried to put it in the back of my mind as much as I could this year. (And I'm sure the Tiger's hat will add some fuel to the speculation, though I think it's already been mentioned here somewhere.) Also this: Asked Trouba if he plays a role in helping the Jets stay under the salary cap this upcoming season, he responds, “that’s Chevy’s job.” He did say this last year: You get the sense there’s a little unfinished business, I guess, here with this team. We all have such good relationships on this team, it’s fun to be part of. It’s a special team. You want to play for a contender, and that’s what we have here.” But after that he went through arbitration, played for a team that earned 15 fewer points, lost in the first round, and now may not have enough cap space to resign all of Laine, Connor, Myers, Trouba, plus another 4-5 players to fill out the roster. They don't have much in the way of prospects coming up, nor much money coming off the books. The situation there isn't looking quite as rosy as it probably was at the end of last year. But none of that has anything to do with what return they'll get if they trade him, just makes it more likely IMO that they will try to trade him. Offer sheet compensation is irrelevant, since no one will offer sheet him. Most likely he will elect arbitration again. But even if he doesn't, and someone did give him an offer, the Jets would just match. It'd have to be an insane offer to keep them from matching, so you might as well argue that the baseline is 4 1sts. It's rare for big name players to get traded period, so it's difficult to gauge value, but how many players recently have brought the kind of return you're talking about? Karlsson. Duchene. Maybe McDonagh depending on how you value Miller/Namestnikov. Trouba had a great year, but I don't think that completely erases the fact that his history is hardly that impressive. Hronek may already be a better scorer. Maybe I could see a 3rd good asset being conditional on resigning him long term, but otherwise two, or two + a throw-in.

He did request a trade back in 2016, and went to arbitration for his last contract. He's had only two negotiations with them and neither went well. It is of course "speculation", but you have to admit there's a hell of a lot of smoke. Looking at some recent trades: Adam Fox: Top prospect, 3 year ELC +3 years of further RFA control. Traded for high 2nd + a 2020 3rd that could change to a 2nd. Mark Stone: Pending UFA, but given how quickly he signed it was probably negotiated beforehand, better player but at a less important position. Traded for a good prospect and a 2020 2nd, plus a swap of irrelevant Lindbergs. Karlsson: Pending UFA, prospect of resigning always in doubt, elite player. Traded for a 1st, 2nd, decent prospect, and two mediocre roster players. Kevin Hayes: Pending UFA, low chance of resigning: WPG gave up a late 1st plus a mediocre prospect to rent him. A team trading for Trouba would have him for 1 year guaranteed, but there'd be some risk of losing him for nothing after. Likely to cost >$8M/yr. Putting it all together, WPG is not just going to trade him for whatever they can get. The Hayes price would almost certainly not be enough. They'd rather keep him for the season/playoffs than settle. That said, two good prospects plus a high-ish pick is more than market value, and maybe more than anyone would pay. I wouldn't be at all surprised if he isn't moved. Hronek + the #35 would be a fair offer, though I don't think I'd do it. I'd rather try to sign Myers to a short deal.

Like Toby says; 35+ clause. Even if we'd have terminated the contract, we'd still have had the cap hit since he was over 35. Not really, I'm sure it'd be pretty rare for both sides in a contract to agree to terminate. Maybe it could lead to making the cap recapture rule apply to any contract rather than just long-term, but besides that the NHL has no reason to care. Vadim Shipachyov's contract was terminated last year; no one batted an eye at that.

Interesting info there. Apparently we could recall Veleno after the WJC. Not that I think we will, or should.

Outside of the top guys, I'm liking Caufield. I don't know about 10th overall, but I'd at least have him in the conversation there.

Daley is expected back next week. Better for Hronek to stay in GR than 3rd pair/possible scratch, fighting Cholo and Green for PP time and being forced to PK.

Who do you think you're talking about? His ELC expired 3 years ago. He's on a standard contract which just happens to be ELC priced because he isn't good. He's a fringe NHLer who will be 26 by the end of the year, with 29 points in 85 NHL games. The defensive prowess of Vanek combined with the offensive ability of a slightly worse Helm. The way he was going in TO, a pay cut was more likely than a raise, much less a raise to $3M. Whomever TO signs to fill that spot will cost as much as they would have offered Leivo. "Most" also lack an understanding of the Dunning-Kruger effect. Very important part of hockey.

It's one of life's great mysteries. The value is in figuring it out for yourself. If I have to tell you the answer, you aren't ready to hear it. You're confused. You can post it any time you want, just like I can call it stupid any time I want. It's, like, one of the top 8 perks of freedom.