Buppy

I apologize for not researching your every opinion on Semin, and assuming your statement, "it'd be nice to compete for a Cup this season", in a post crying about not signing him meant you believed he would allow our roster (which "sucks") to do so. In the future I'll try to be more dilligent so as to better recognize the hyperbolic rantings of the frustrated headline addicts.

Realistically, right now? Datsyuk, Kronwall, + high picks/prospects.

Our roster sucks but Semin makes us a contender? Yeah, something is way too high...

I don't think it's so much a matter of not wanting to overpay or looking for bargains. I think Kenny's just looking at the big picture and doesn't want to make big commitments to marginal players just to say he's doing something. We need a star, not an extra. We're willing to pay for a star. We offered Suter ~$7M for 13 years, probably would have matched Minnesota's offer if we wouldn't have also had to offer Parise the same. We were willing to make big commitments to both, just not quite as big as Minnesota. We looked into Nash and Weber. But guys like Carle, Garrison, etc. aren't going to make any difference. If we're as bad as some people think then Carle isn't an answer. Better off not bothering. If we're not as bad as people think, we're still better off riding it out while we try for someone who can make a difference, who can be or become the leader of this team. If we have to be mediocre for a couple years, maybe miss the playoffs, so what. Every other team has managed to do so without the world ending. 2nd and 3rd tier players are always available to add later if we need to. We added a few pieces to give us some trade flexibility. We need one more defenseman. We add anything more than that and we have to make a trade or lose assets for nothing. As it is, we have the option of waiting for the right move.

I think the whole Detroit as "the" destination of choice for all free agents is a bit overstated in the first place. How many times have we really made huge FA acquisitions? Hull & Robitaille, Hatcher, Rafalski, Hossa... Lot of smaller moves, other teams' cast-offs and over the hill names. We missed on a lot of guys too: Hull (when he went to Dallas), Kariya, Selanne, Mogilny, Turgeon, Chara, Neidermeyer, Roenick, Fedorov... probably more. Obviously right now we aren't as desireable as we were the year after a Cup win, but I don't think any less than we were in '01 or '07, nor are we undesirable at all.

He only visited NY and Philly because he was in the area for CBA negotiations. If the CBA was being negotiated in Detroit, he would have visted us. But I guess it's Kenny's fault for not trading Michigan for Manhatten.

I find it difficult to avoid personal attacks because I get frustrated by people who I believe are unreasonable. I want to respond with rational debate, but I feel like it would be pointless. Case in point: You say Suter and Parise did not want to play in Detroit. The truth is only that Detroit did not end up being their top choice. There's a big difference there. A player may want to play for multiple teams, but they can only choose one. Expecting everyone to want to play here more than they want to play anywhere else, and concluding that if they don't it means they didn't want to play here at all is irrational and unreasonable. I said as much in my previous reply and you still failed to grasp the concept. Hence why I feel rational debate is pointless. There isn't any great organizational malfunction that needs to be addressed. No dereliction of duty. No flawed schemata. s*** does happen. We missed out on a couple free agents, s*** happens. It could be just a speed bump, or it could send us right off the track into a catastrophic crash. This is what is supposed to happen. This is how the system is designed. What goes up must come down. Since when is maintaining a top contender in perpetuity the new standard for adequacy in sports? What franchise, ever, in the history of any sport, has remained among the elite for nearly two decades without a single blemish? Maybe it all isn't as easy as some think. Maybe things don't happen just because you want them to or because you can write them out on a message board and make them sound reasonable. Maybe when decisions are made, even those based on impeccable reasoning, they don't always work out. Maybe you give a solid effort but still fall short. Maybe sometimes those failures compound into situations that have no ready solution. Maybe speculating in hindsight on what might have been done better isn't the best way to evaluate performance. Maybe "consistently exceeding all reasonable expectations" shouldn't be what we expect from our management. Maybe a guy with such a sterling record deserves a little more respect. Maybe we can give a guy af****** break. But I guess it makes us feel better to rant and finger-point. Have fun with it I guess. I'll continue trying to resist my more choleric urges.

There are a lot of players in the league, and a lot of teams. If you expect the Wings to be the top choice for every single one of them, you are expecting too much. Also, if you think a player signing with another team means they had no interest at all in playing here, you are not being rational. The only players we know of that weren't interested in an offer are Weber and Schultz. I don't see how that is a big deal.

nm

You act like he was just speculating about Weber's lack of interest. But the reports all indicate that Weber's camp said they weren't interested. At that point submitting a formal offer is basically pointless. I suppose you could assume they were just lying about not not being interested, because I'm sure that happens in negotiations all the time. Then after they reject the first offer, you should assume it was an accident and send another. Then you assume they were just kidding around, then spilled coffee on it, then were playing hard to get, then needed to burn one for warmth, then wanted to make paper airplanes, then experimenting to see if they can re-combine all that paper back into a living tree... Hell, just fax him an offer every minute of every day. Send af****** parade of Korean bike messengers with confetti guns to rain tiny pink, blue, and yellow formal offer sheets all over Nashville. Due dilligence, you know. Or you could just assume that no means no. Not like you would really be satisfied if we had submitted a formal offer and were rejected.

From here.

I'd prefer the term "recourse" or "resort". You say "option" and people will act like it was Kenny's plan all along, and next year we'll have to listen to people whine about how Kenny "promised" to get us Getzlaf, Perry, Iginla, Enstrom, and Edler.

You're grasping at straws for something to criticize.

5th seed actually (6th might have been better, as I think we'd have had a better shot at beating the Coyotes). However, we were also tied for 7th most points in the league. LA was an 8th seed, 13th in points. I know you're all up on their bandwagon, but they aren't nearly as good as you think they are. I wouldn't be at all surprised if they miss the playoffs next year.

One might reasonably conclude that inquiring about Weber's interest in playing here would qualify as a "shot".

Lecavalier was the first, I think. July of 2008. Hank didn't sign his until January 2009. Mike Richards and Ovechkin both had long-term deals before that, though not front-loaded. 8th actually.

7/1/13 would be a different season, so it is compliant. All the up-front money is an issue, since it takes away cash they might spend on other improvements, in addition to the prospect of continuing to lose money for a few more years. I think if the offer was coming from a team like Toronto or Buffalo, they'd let him walk and rebuild. But this offer I believe they'll match, then wait to see what the new CBA brings and what kind of revenue they get next season, and maybe trade him later.

You know that's from last November, right? He has since increased his share to 12% (according to Wikipedia at least). They have always had the money to match, they had the money to keep both Weber and Suter. Paying them is more about the business model than actual cash flow. At the trade deadline last season, talk was that the ownership group basically gave the green light to spend like a contender. I'll believe that when I see it, but since they currently have only around $37 million in salary commitments for next year I don't think $14 million next year for Weber was ever going to be a problem. Nor all the signing bonus stuff. I think the only real considerations are "poison pill" clauses and whether they feel they'd be better off rebuilding rather than making such a long-term, expensive commitment.

That's why people need to take the things NHL executives tell the media with a grain of salt. Great negotiators treat the media as just another negotiation tool at their disposal. Should also take someone's pessimistic, read-between-the-lines-interpretation of things NHL execs say with an extra grain of salt. Holland never said he's content with the current roster. He said we're done in goal, we have a lot of forwards, and we need to add one more player (defenseman, presumably). He said that in today's NHL you can't add premiere UFAs every year. Not sure where the "content" angle came from...

They can still get cap relief from LTIR. They did just that for two years with Laperriere. I assume they'll do it for 5 with Pronger if he can't play again. Loopholes.

Yes, if the Preds match, it becomes a contract with them. If not, it's a contract with Philly. Either way, it means Weber will likely never be a UFA, assuming the contract is approved by the league.

Any scoring unit can be shut down. Philly was shut down by NJ. SJ, Boston, Vancouver, Chicago all had trouble scoring in the playoffs. You can't judge ability based on a 5 game stretch. Sometimes, things just don't go well. A very similar offense scored over 3 goals per game in '10-11. No trade(s) are going to help if the players don't play well. If the players play well, we can score with the best of them even with the players we have now. Not to say the proposed trade is a bad one, and normally I'd be ok with it. But with such a need on defense, giving up all those assets for what would likely be only a small improvement (and possibly even a downgrade if Flip improves further and Nyquist breaks out, plus leaving us without a backup option for a top-6 center if Pav or Hank get hurt) at forward doesn't make much sense. Franzen instead of Flip is less of a risk, but also less of an improvement (and the Ducks supposedly want a top-6 center anyway). If we're going to make a major trade, it should be for a defenseman.

Mark Howe played for Philly last year.

The Canes just re-signed him this past season. If they were planning to trade him, they would have shopped him at the deadline or draft. He also has a NTC. Aside from that, yeah, he's a good player that many of us were hoping to get at the deadline or as a UFA.