Theophany

Babcock always uses his centers as shutdown guys, especially against the Sharks, who were extremely deep down the middle (Thornton/Pavelski/Couture). That he trusted Filppula to play center on a line with Franzen and Hudler, two huge defensive liabilities, shows how much he trusted Filppula to play a defensive/backchecking role on that line. And yes, Franzen sucked. But then again, that's nothing new. He has large periods during the regular season where he sucks/is invisible.

Stars and Wild? The only teams that would be less successful would be Florida and Atlanta.

Man Boston looked awful. Holy crap.

Not living up to his potential? He had the GWG (and made the play to take away the puck) in game six. How much more clutch would you like him to be? He also put up 8 points in 11 games, and he only got points in two games of the Sharks series (1 G, 1 A in game six and 1 A in game seven). Also keep in mind that he was primarily used as a defensive center for most of the series, until Babcock put him on Datsyuk's wing. How about Cleary? He's only paid slightly less than Filppula, and yet he gets a pass for producing markedly less than Filppula in the playoffs? Not only that, he does markedly less than Filppula on defense.

Oh good, another overreaction thread from someone who doesn't know what the hell they're talking about. Seriously, bashing Filppula and Babcock?

Oh don't get me wrong, Kronwall was excellent in the playoffs, but he's not ready to take over as a #1 defenseman yet. I think if Lidstrom comes back for one more year you'll see Lids as essentially as a PP specialist even more-so than this season (like he was in the playoffs) and you'll see Kronwall getting more hard minutes than he has in the past. I honestly believe that next year (and possibly the year after) will be the transition year.

So they can both be -3 in a 6-3 win? That defensive pair would be great.

So you like winning 30 games a year? Because that's about how many you'd win with that lineup. YOU HAVE HELM ON THE FIRST LINE WING. Please for the love of god stay away from anything that's anywhere close to coaching or being a GM. You'd be absolutely terrible at it.

Uh, +/- isn't affected by PK time unless you score a shorthanded goal (or are on the PK unit that does).

Er, why would you do that? Do you automatically assume that if Kronwall wasn't playing on the PK and instead using those minutes at ES like Lidstrom did that he would have scored two more goals? Just to satisfy your curiosity though, Lidstrom scored a point at ES or on the PP every ~29 mins he was on the ice. Kronwall scored a point at ES or on the PP every ~34 mins he was on the ice. That's taking out PK time from both of their total series ice time.

Yeah, totally. Second in team scoring, +8, definitely a drain on the team. By contrast your boy Kronwall played two more minutes a game and only put up 6 points in the whole playoffs and was a +5.

This is extremely laughable. He's a Norris finalist and you think he's overpaid at $6.2m? And even more laughable, you think Kronwall is a future #1 dman? He's 30 years old and has never showed more talent than a #2 at best. Edit: I hope to god that Lids is back for another year. This team will have a hard time continuing on without him.

Ah, true. Personally I want to see what Hudler can do if he shows up for a full season, but I can understand the desire to see him gone.

Right now, yes, because Crosby still has concussion symptoms. But if/when Crosby gets healthy, Dats is clearly #2.

Howard has been huge, but it was completely justified to doubt him going into the playoffs. He had a pretty rough regular season.

You need to add a little "as long as they show up for a full 60 minute game" in there. But I agree, as long as they play a full game and everyone shows up, they can compete with anyone.

It's completely feasible that five years ago people would choose Thornton over Datsyuk. In fact, had someone chosen Dats over Joe at the time, they'd need their head checked. Since then though, one has been ascending and one has been declining. It's pretty clearly Dats at this point, and it's not very close at all.

Yes, the Wings need something in the offseason, but you're not going to get a forward and a top four defender for $3m. Maybe the defender alone for ~$3m.

Not even close to worthy of even a minor. This is playoff hockey: cheap shots will happen, you just have to deal with them and move on

I like when people attempt to take shots at me, like my self-worth as a fan is predicated on whether other fans like me.

I don't know how to explain it more explicitly: you think that anyone saying the Wings are done aren't fans. That's ignoring the facts, ignorant, asinine, etc.

Exactly right, and probably more clearly stated than I could in my post. I understand the "I'll believe in my team until the final seconds of our fourth loss" but what I don't understand is looking down on someone who still supports the team and still watches but has realistic expectations based on the probability of winning. I will always support the Wings, but I react poorly when people tell me I'm less of a fan just because I know the probability of pulling one out and hold no illusions about the caliber of this team. Were this the '02 or '08 DRW, I would be in the faith group with the rest of you, but as this is the '11 DRW, I don't hold the same faith because the odds and how the team has played throughout the season proves that everyone should be doubting them right now. The onus is on our boys to prove that they're in that select group that can pull out a series win when down 0-3. My point, had you bothered to read the post that I was replying to, was that the poster said that, "but when I see people saying, "They're done." I just don't feel like they're on 'our' side." he was being an irrational idiot. I don't fault those that have faith; were the circumstances different (as noted above, were the team better and more consistent in the regular season, etc) I would be in that "they're gonna pull it out" camp. But the facts are as they are, and the Wings may win two or three games, but I don't believe they can win a fourth based on the facts.

I stated in my post that chance was a factor. Anyone that knows anything about statistics and probability knows that chance is the defining reason that we even have probability in the first place. I could go into an entire rant about how faith has held science back for thousands of years, but it's not germane to this thread. The long and short of it is that 1.8% can't be argued with, because it's a fact. Facts are true whether you want to believe them or not, that's why they're called "facts". The beauty of sports is that there is chance and there is momentum involved in them, but there is also damn near 100 years of history involved in hockey, and in all of that time, three teams have come back from being down 0-3 to win the series. That's not to say it can't happen, because it has (1.8% of the time). Rational people choose to believe in probability and chance rather than choosing blind faith. Even with a dour outlook on the series, most are going to be watching tonight anyway, for that 1.8% chance that it will happen.

JR is completely justified in saying what he feels about certain players. It says a hell of a lot about how we view the media when people have a problem with such bland and inconsequential comments like JR made. I wish that more color guys and analysts would be more honest instead of taking the popular opinions on every player they talk about. I'm sure there are one or two guys that like Matt Cooke, and one or two guys that hate Crosby. I'm sure there are one or two guys that hate Datsyuk, too. Why not let them have their opinion? It makes for entertaining TV, FOX news has shown us that.