Miller Brew

I'll be honest, I don't see how fighting 'enforces' other teams players to play nice. Maybe back in the 90's it served it's purpose, but I don't think fighting brings nothing more than entertainment value to the fans. Not saying that I want Leino in the line-up because he's not gritty enough in the corners nor does he hit enough... that is why I think May is in the line-up more so than 'enforcing'. Because there's been plenty of cheap shots that injured our players while May was in the line-up, his 'enforcing' presence had no factor on how the other team played.

Off topic (kinda), last time I watched Ducks they weren't goonery, in fact they looked.. droggy. I'm thinking that since Getzaf is out that it sucked the wind out of their team. So, for an on topic prediction, I doubt May drops 'em tonight.

I think what I like most about the Kronwall/Stuart pairing is we have a solid puck moving defensemen in Kronner and a dominant shut down man in Stuart. While their scoring production won't match Lids and Ralfi, they are two guys you can most certainly count on against anyone's top players and will knock-the-f-out any players who don't pay attention they're on the ice. Then given the fact that Wings have depth scoring defensemen in Ericsson (I think his offensive numbers will make Kronwall blush), and soon Kindl will be here. Then looking ahead a few years, Smith will be the man who will lead in D-scoring. Of course that's my opinion based on what I've seen from the kid.

I can't disagree. And to be honest, I think Wings future at D is very strong with Kindl, Smith and Lashoff to play soon (the latter two should be 3 years away).

I agree. I said in a post a while ago and got flamed for it. But I think Stuart and Kronwall would make for a solid 1st pairing on the Red Wings if Lidstrom does, in fact, retire after this year. As a pairing and with their chemistry together, I don't think a 1st pair can get any better than those two in the new NHL.

Off topic, I would love to see Mike Green come here. I think he's going to be the best Defensmen in the league for many years to come - he's young and quickly rounding out his defensive side the game. A perfect filler for Lidstrom's spot.

I agree, when I read that I was like "huh?". I thought May should have been in MORE fights. I wanted to see him drop them when Doan hit Ericsson.

Ericsson has been a B+ and they have him at a C. He's a rookie logging a ton of minutes and plays on the PK. His grading would suggest Janik has played better but that is the farthest thing from that fact. I would rather Janik over Lebda or Meech when Ericsson returns though.

No need to get all defensive. I'm sure you have reasons for your own personal opinions how you rank teams, as do I. No harm no foul. It's all in clean fun. Just pockets full of sunshine Cheers!

Bro, I know tough it is to have injuries.. it blows! All we can hope for (whether you're a Ducks fan or a Wings fan) is an injury free game. Whenever Wings play a game without a injury it feels like a win even if we lose. I know Ducks are struggling this year, but just think about the great picks your team will score... maybe Taylor Hall? I'd be so jealous. Ducks are a great team and will be in the cup run next year for sure.

Easy killer, just because someone has an opinion that you may not personally agree with doesn't justify flaming or attacking other members. Or is that how you like to roll? Lol. If I could draw a newspaper cartoon comic about this experience. Miller says "I like the new Chevy Camaro" Z and D replies with "You are a f#cking TROLL and you know it! Everyone knows the Ford Pinto will always be the BEST!". But this does give me the perfect opportunity to post my favorite George Carlin quote: "I do this real moron thing, it's called thinking, and I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions" I love that quote and it fits perfectly to reply back to you in a civil manner without being a "troll".

Yeah, Sharks are having a very bad night.

Kings are very impressive. I told my friend a month ago that Kings look like the real deal this year and could easily be a favorite to go to the SCF if Detroit doesn't make it. They seem to have all the fundamentals to go all the way. Then again, so does the Sharks. I never taken Sharks serious in the past but I think Nabokov has really improved and the Heatley deal was just what they needed. I would put the west in this order for favorites to go to the finals: #1. Red Wings (if healthy) #2. Sharks (if Heatley is healthy) #3. Kings (if goaltending remains solid in the post-season) #4. Avs (I've always respected that Avs as a threat until they got Quenneville. After they fired him (or didn't renew his contract) they suddenly got better again)

So much for Cleary returning by January 2nd... I'm not going to put anymore stock in these sources until I see them on the ice... Sick of being strung along and not playing when they say.

Okay, I'll play along.... Holmstrom is a consistent 29-goal scorer. While Ryan Smyth earns $6.2 million and can scores approx 27 to 36 goals per (when healthy). Holmstrom scored 29 goals in 2006 Holmstrom scored 30 goals in 2007 Holmstrom was on pace for 28 goals in 2008 (played 59 games) Holmstrom was on pace for 26-27 goals in 08-09 (played 52 games) Holmstrom is on pace for 32 goals in 2010 Guess rounding off is a cardinal sin because it doesn't help your argument. Listen, I don't care what your argument is, he's worth more than $1 million (his worth is closer to $2 million and $2.5+ on the open market) and people here think players will sign in Detroit for more than 50% less than there open market value is worth. Just 1 year or so ago people on LGWs were posting that Wings/Holland was going to resign all of Zetterberg, Franzen, Hudler, and Hossa and still be under cap. They had Franzen at $2.5 million, Zetterberg at $4 million, Hossa for $4 million, Hudler at $1.5-$2 million (or something like that). Now they have Holmstrom at $1 million. Worse than Chicago fans, they think they are going to trade Byfuglien for Kovalchuck and he'll sign a long term deal in Chicago for $5.5 million.

Umm, Yahoo!, ESPN, Wikipedia and Sports Illustrated player stats by using a simple Google search. Back to back 29 and 30 goals, 20 goals in only 59 games played the year after his back-2-back and on pace for 32 goals this year. Since Babcock became coach in Detroit, Holmstrom has been a consistent 30-goal scorer (besides his 50-ish games played seasons), but since Holmer had both of his testicles removed, he looks much better. Though his voice seems to be a bit more higher-pitched during interviews.

I wouldn't be surprised if he got nearly what he get's paid now. But I hope we can keep him for a few hundred thousand less... If we were to lose Holmstrom then we need to replace him with a 30-goal scorer. I can't think of any UFA proven 30+goal scorer willing to take $1 million per year. Hell even $2.5 million wouldn't be easy. Heck, Mikael Samuelsson only averages 15 goals per season and he makes $2.5 million.

I honestly do not remember anyone, what-so-ever, in this thread state that Holmstrom deserves a pay raise. If I am wrong then I encourage you to copy & paste the post that you think says Holmer should get a pay raise. I think you misread or failed to read this thread. The argument was someone thinks Holmstrom will accept a $1 million dollar deal. My question is do many 32 goal scorers get paid $1 million dollar per year? I stated that I would be surprised if Holmstrom takes less than $1.9 million to stay on the Wings. I also said that I think he could fetch $2.5 or more on the open market. There are lots of teams trying to groom a player to do what Holmstrom does. In all cases, they are unsuccessful. Holmstrom is the only true demolition man in the NHL. The closest player there is that can do what Holmer does is Ryan Smyth (he is only 2 or 3 years younger than Holmer) and gets paid $6.2 million per year. I just think some people are unrealistic. That's all.

So Dats (or Lidstrom's) shots would go in net even if Holmer didn't deflect them? I guess I missed that game... And if Holmstrom's job is so easy then why is there so few in the entire NHL that can do what Holmstrom does. Like I said in my last post, the only player that I know of that can compare to what Holmer does is Ryan Smyth in LA (formally in Colorado) who makes $6.2 million per year. There are lots of snipers in the NHL, there are lots of shooters in the NHL, but there is only one Holmstrom. I guess his skills aren't so unskillful after all since he's such a rare commodity. Do you know why Holmstrom is one of the most hated players (by other fans and players) in the entire NHL? Because he is good at what he does. He pisses off goalies and defensemen and score big deflected ugly goals to help this team win. No matter how you try to devalue his goals, they are still goals that help this team win (and make the playoffs).

You have to understand that a lot member here at LGW's think a 'true' or 'great' hockey player is someone who can kick the s*** out of anyone, while goal scoring or playing solid defense is a far second. Personally, I tend to stay away from the 'enforcer' or 'fighting' threads as they are never ending until mods lock or delete them. I don't really understand the mentality, but that's what it is here at LGWs. I think if some LGWs members here were the GM of the Wings, they'd trade away the entire roster for fighters/enforcers like Brad May's and Aaron Downey's type players. Wings wouldn't score any goals, Wings won't stop the puck from going in and the games might end 26-0.. but they'd be happy because they seen 12 fights per game...

It's you, my friend, who doesn't 'get it'. You are sitting behind your little computer devaluing a deflection goal. I was merely pointing out if not for Holmstrom's goals, Wings could easily be in last place right now with not an iota of a chance, what-so-ever, to even fight for a playoff spot. They don't ask how, they ask how many. The point was, since you don't get it, Holmstrom's goals are just as meaningful as any other player in the NHL. The object of the game is to get more goals on the scoreboard than the opposition. You obvoulsy don't understand the objective of the game. Btw, Ryan Smyth earns $6.2 million per year. Just food for thought.

Are you ******* kidding me? Lol. Deflection goals = less points the team earns for wins. I don't think I laughed this hard since... well since the "Howard doesn't win against playoff teams" debate. Anyhow... cool story, bro. :wink:

Holmstrom is 36, how is he turning 38? Cleary is one of my favorite players but my point is Cleary is a 20 goal scorer and makes $3.5 next year ($2.8 cap hit) and Holmstrom is had back to back 29 and 30 goals and is on pace for 32 goals this season. He could easily get a 1-year deal for $2.5m (or more) on the open market, but folks on LGW's think he's going to take a massive pay cut to stay in Detroit... Not gonna happen. Btw, PKers can be had for $500k (see Eaves and Miller). So it's not like PKers can't be found... However, a 32 goal scorer isn't something that can just be had everyday. I'd be surprised if Holmer resigns for anything less than $1.9 million per year.

Eaves and Miller PK and stuff, you think they should make $3.5 million? Holmstrom $1 million (30+ goal scorer and a 40-50 point guy) is only worth $1 million per year? Really? I guess you could be right if Holland signed him to 8+ years. I'd rather have Holmer for $2+ million per for 1 or 2 years than $1 million for 8+ years. Just sayin'... Too bad Holland couldn't have signed Franzen for $1 million per year. Some fans here seem to have this impractical idea that players will take 50%+ pay cut because they'll get to wear the Winged wheel in Detroit Motor City.

I clicked the link and saw Ducks score 2 goals on 2 shots in less than 1 minute apart. I'm assuming Huet is net? Edit: Nevermind. Nemo(sp?) was in net.