PavelValerievichDatsyuk

I nominate the Laughing Hudler face. I've been feeling that way for quite a while and just haven't known how to express it.

I think that's possible. I saw an article on him that said he was the highest draft pick to ever play on the team and it doesn't seem the most established hockey program. But Nick Jensen played there for 3 years. Or maybe they are looking at Jensen's long process to get to the NHL and think that not something that should be repeated.

But Larkin had success for the first half year in the NHL and Holland cites that success - not just the pre-NHL success.

So, who does this open the door for? I'd get behind it if we had juniors from the OHL, etc. I like watching the WJC and seeing future stars. Having young amateurs would be more in line with the Olympic tradition anyway. If countries send the Emmertons of the world then I think everybody loses in this olympics.

Okay, that clears it up. I hadn't seen this when I quoted you. You should understand why I thought you meant me, though. You're post was right after my long one on Montreal. I did seem the most likely target. I thought it was an interesting angle to question whether the Wings' standards are really different and I put some time that post. Then I thought it was like a version of saying "so, anyway..." Then I did quote you a page back and asked what was so off-topic about what I posted, but you didn't respond. It did seem out of character and I should have private messaged you to clear it up. Anyway, it's all good with me. And sorry then with my wrong paraphase - It was just a misunderstanding. Bear hug?

Following my post about Montreal's retired numbers. It seem kind of rude. responding to Lefty's question about what was off topic. Assumedly because we weren't talking about the right thing. Maybe it's a misunderstanding on my part, but it seems like all these bolded parts are you saying that I and others aren't the right thing.

Datsyuk made that list too.

Agreed with this part, but I think Fedorov is on the same tier as Lindsay and Abel. The issue is obviously loyalty, though. Feds even played for the Wings longer than those 2, but it's only the manner that he left that makes it questionable. I think in the comparisons with these 2, I think it's important to note that Abel's number was retired 40+ years after he retired and Lindsay 30+ years. Only Howe, Yzerman, and Lidstrom are the guys that are without question retired and were put up a year or 2 after they stopped playing. All the rest had to wait for the early 90s, when Illitch wanted to celebrate the past legacy. Maybe Fedorov will have to wait a while as well. And yes, Kick, I'm happy Holland said that about Z. He clicks all the boxes in the possible criteria. I really don't know why you decided that this thread is only for talking about that, though.

I really don't see why you thought my post was off the thread topic. I was directly responding to what Hockeymom and CRL said. I really think the standards for retired jerseys are pretty close to other teams as I've looked more into it and, by giving an example of that, I was arguing the validity of comparing to players and organizations outside. Without comparing to other teams, there's no real comparables for Fed's situation within Red Wings history and you're left guessing at the hurt feelings from contract negotiations. Having outside perspective, you can look at instances like Bobby Hull leaving the Blackhawks for the WHA's Winnipeg Jets for more money and still having his number retired by the Hawks. Or Pavel Bure declaring he wouldn't play for the Canucks again despite having a year left on his contract (shades of Datsyuk?). He even refused to report to the team next year. Yet, they retired his number. Or Ray Bourque demanding a trade from the Bruins, going to the Avs and was still Retired by the Bruins. Or very recently, St. Louis had the conflict with Yzerman, demanded the trade from TB and put the team in a rough situation, but his number was retired a couple months ago. So, considering these cases, you can write them off as due to different standards and think this organization holds grudges better than these other teams. Or you can see hope for Fedorov or maybe Datsyuk being retired. I'm on the side of the later. It's just speculation that says that the organization even holds a big grudge against Feds. We know they were close to bringing him back late in his career. That doesn't sound like much of a grudge to me. I also think it's speculation that says we don't retire players that we had business conflicts with. One imperfect counter to that is that Ted LIndsey's #'s retired, though he butted heads with management constantly over trying to organize the player's union and he was traded due to this. Obviously, that's different than personal negotiations and he was retired by later owners (we do have a new owner, sort of...), but there's no other situation close to Fed's history within the Wings history.

His 3 best seasons each followed by a let down. That is kind of what Dickie was saying.

Sheahan definitely got too much time, but some of AA's low minutes could be due the fact that AA was out for at least a little while when he was hit by a stick on a follow-through from a shot. Not sure how long he was getting fixed up for, though. Or the reason could rhyme with spank.

So, I inadvertently brought up this side issue and I was curious and bored so I looked into it. And... I'm going to completely contradict myself: I really don't think our standards are different than the Habs. All of their 18 players (15 retired numbers): - won multiple cups with the Habs and are in the Hall of Fame - won multiple major individual awards (G: Vezina, F-Hart, Art Ross, D-Norris) - played all but a few years of their career with the Habs (except goalies: Plante has 6 years away and Roy, but then again, Sawchuck had 7 years away - it is less likely for goalies to spend their career with 1 team) Except these player that don't meet all those high standards: - Henri Richard: HOF, 11 cups (most of anyone), Lifetime Hab, Captain for 4 years - Yeah, we'd put him up. - Bob Gainey: HOF: 5 Cups, Lifetime Hab, Conn Smythe+4 Selkes, Captain for 8 years - Yeah, We'd put him up. - Yvan Cournoyer: HOF, 10 cups, Lifetime Hab, Conn Smythe, Captain for 4 years - Yeah, we'd put him up. - Serge Savard: HOF, 8 Cups, Only 2 years away from Habs, Conn Smyth+Masterton, Captain for 2 years. was also GM for 12 years (winning 2 cups) - yeah we'd put him up. - Emile Bouchard: HOF, 4 cups, Lifetime Hab, Captain for 8 years. - probably the smallest case of all the retired players, but I still think we'd put him up So, I really don't think they've put any numbers that could be comparable to the "should they, shouldn't they?" variety like Osgood, Shanahan, Holmstrom. And none show a lower standard than what we've put up. Sorry that this is longer than I intended, but I think it's relevant since this debate really comes down to what the standards are and everyone always says that the Wings are different than the rest of the league. Maybe that really isn't the case. From looking around the original six teams, at least, seem to have similar standards (except maybe the Leafs with Clark, Gilmour, etc. or a few sentimental exceptions: Bruins with Terry O'Reilly).

True, they do have a lot. It's 18 players, but 15 numbers. They do have different different standards, but I'm not sure I would argue against any of them being retired.

Ruh Roh

Oh Sheahan...

I think Fedorov will be up there. I don't think it's a sure thing, but time heals most wounds. Just listen to all the reflections on the streak, Feds is such a huge part of the 90s story. Maybe not soon. I think it's 9 years from franchise centennial - That could be a time to retire some of the numbers that have been neglected. Also, they'll probably be very few people left that had any part in contract disputes. I know the Wings have different standards, but, hell, Habs even retired Roy despite the fact he asked for the trade in such a fashion. It's about acknowledging those iconic players that make you frachise what it is - old grudges shouldn't get in the way.

Mantha fractured a finger! Damn, that's probably his season

2 goals for DK so far.

DK!!

Except it has to be no hans.

You may say Tigger and Pooh, but we know it's Ferris and Cameron. The Wings should be less obvious in the tank than faking this injury and taking our star out of the lineup.

Woohoo!

Well, you must know that's not true. You succeed in the modern NHL and you don't pick high and it corrodes your talent pool. Past success is absolutely relevant to later struggles.

Nosek's 1st!!

Z with some nice moves.