kipwinger

Nah. Screw stats, they don't matter. His opinion is that Smith is better than two of our top four defensemen. It doesn't matter if evidence doesn't support this, it's his opinion; so how can it be dumb?

Lol. You're right, Smith is a stud who's just not been given the opportunity to succeed because he's been carrying the water for scrubs. Screw stats and facts. You win.

I'm predicting a blowout. The Pens are a paper tiger. They'll try to play wide open with us and we'll bury them. Teams need to figure out, the way to be Detroit is to slow them down, not speed them up. Hence, Barry Trotz' Capitals gave us fits and Nashville got stomped.

Stafford is a UFA though. If he leaves at the end of the season, do people still think Winnipeg wins this trade?

I just assume he'll be waived.

Ideally, I'd do... Kronwall-E Franson-Dekeyser Quincey/Smith-Marchenko Quincey/Smith But I don't see Holland, or Babs, scratching Quincey or Smith. And I don't like the two together if you scratch Marchenko. So it's wise to trade either Smith or Quincey in the package for Franson. Quincey is the better player, so I'd rather keep him out of the two. But I would be amenable to either.

You say "I know, I know...stats" as if they're completely superfluous. They aren't. They indicate his current level of play. This is EXACTLY my issue with you and Smith. You constantly state as fact things that aren't currently true, but MAY be true one day. You say... 1. Smith's a two way player...and leave out "despite not producing offense and not being great defensively". 2. Smith's a top four player...and leave out "despite not earning top four minutes". 3. Smith should be on the powerplay...and leave out "despite never earning powerplay time. You consistently equate his potential with his current play. They aren't the same. Until he consistently scores, he's not a scoring threat. Until he beats out Kindl and Dekeyser for 2nd powerplay time he's not a power play threat. Until he's better than Kyle Quincey, he's not a top four defender on this team.

I don't think so at all. If I were them I'd have a five pronged strategy for success... 1. Select organizational philosophy similar to Anaheim, San Jose, or Boston. 2. Find coach who can play that game. 3. Build around Phaneuf, JVR, Panik, Winnik, Reilly, Clarkson, Bozak and move Kessel, Lupul (if possible), Kadri, Santorelli, Gardiner for futures. 4. Draft big centers as early as possible. 5. Buy stop gaps in UFA until centers are ready. Estimated time to competitiveness? Five years.

Franson and Smith would be a laugh a minute defensively. Plus, their strengths are exactly the same. It would be like playing Datsyuk with Datsyuk. Both Smith and Franson can't lead the breakout at the same time. Also, Babcock and Holland have explicitly said they want a right hander for the top four. So I think they're probably ok with breaking up that pair.

Basically this. Richards and Kessel aren't in the same boat. One is washed up and unproductive while being massively overpaid. The other is a little overpaid but is one of the best goal scorers in the game.

I agree with the parts about Chelios. I disagree with everything else. Everybody acts like line brawls happened every other night in the old days. They didn't. Guys didn't fight after each and every cheap shot back then. Want proof? Gordie Howe was LEGENDARY for elbowing. He had very few career fights (relative to his contemporaries). If he had to fight after every dirty elbow, he'd have a lot more. The unsung, and sadly unheralded, characteristic of Old Time Hockey was that players often manned up and played through cheap bulls***. They let a lot more go. It was EXPECTED you'd get elbowed, or hit in the face with a stick. It was part of the game. It didn't require a line brawl, or even a fight, every time it happened. As far as McQuaid goes. He's a tough guy. Big enough to eat hay. He was also uninjured on the play. He doesn't need anybody to stand up for him. I'm sure he'll fight Roussell the next time they play.

Babcock is the one who wants the righty. He's the one that consistently emphasizes how important it is. I have no question that Babcock will use him correctly, acquiring Franson (or a guy like him) was Babcock's idea. Holland didn't just come up with this on his own.

How is Myers better than Bogosian?

1. Ken Holland is not going to acquire Cody Franson to play him on the third pair. 2. That's exactly what I said. Smith's game has improved because he's with a righty. I didn't say, or suggest that his game improved because Marchenko is "that" good. The left/righty matchup made the third pair better by improving Smith's game. It did not noticeably change Marchenko's game. 3. We were talking about Smith's past (e.g. his first 21 games). Why would I pick a quote from this week?

Smith is worse than Quincey AND Dekeyser in every single statistical category. He's simply not better than they are. I suppose you can try to make the argument that he's currently better than Ericsson, however probably not given Ericsson's role on that pair. There are currently four better defensemen for our team's system. No knock on Smith, he's looked better with Marchenko and that pair has made some things happen lately. But this tired old "Smith's really super good, but the stars are just aligned to keep him on the third pair" crap is lame. He's been given every opportunity to grab on to a top four spot. He didn't win it. Oh well.

Wings were scouting Toronto last night. Just sayin'.

I don't think so. Not comparable. Myers was under contract. Franson's a UFA at the end of the year. Plus Kane's stock fell dramatically (attitude AND injury), which is why he had to be paired with Bogosian.

Totally saw this coming and should have called it. Damn. Would have liked to land Stafford though.

There's a lot to respond to here, so I'll try to be systematic... 1. Dekeyser is never, ever, going to be on the third pair. I know you think that it's not "technically" the third pair if you get a decent amount of minutes, but Mike Babcock (and all the other coaches in the league) don't agree. There's no benefit to acquiring a top four defenseman (Franson) and demoting one (Dekeyser) for a bottom pair guy (Smith). Mike Babcock does not believe Brendan Smith is a top four defenseman. If he was, he would be. It's not t like he's being blocked by Kronwall and Brad Stuart. He's being blocked by Kyle Quincey and younger, less experience, and undrafted stay at home defender in Dekeyser. If he was truly the better player, he'd play. 2. Marchenko has looked good because Marchenko IS good. He's playing the same side, and the same way he always does. The lefty/righty pair has disproportionately benefitted Smith's game, not Marchenko's. Put another way, Marchenko ALWAYS plays with a lefty, so playing with another one isn't a big deal. But until recently Smith NEVER played with a righty, which is why being switched has improved his game so much. 3. Xavier Ouellet has played 21 games. In that time he's shown that he's got excellent decision making, very good passing, very good work ethic, and a very good point shot. No, he's not currently better than Brenden Smith, but to suggest he won't ever be, after 21 games, is premature. If Brendan Smith was judged based off of his first 21 games he'd be flipping burgers in Ontario somewhere. Remember, this is a guy who got called out by the team captain for creating as many scoring chances for the other team as he did for his own...so don't get cocky quite yet lol.

Difference noted. But I still submit that its only reliable because we are good at it. It wouldn't be the most reliable way for Toronto to improve, because they can't develop players for s***.

I agree with your sentiments, and overall statement completely. However, I would say that (although most people don't know it yet) Andreas Athanasiou is our best prospect not named Petr Mrazek. He's flown under the radar because of his injury, but this kid is a monster. He's better than Mantha, he's better than Ouellet, he's better than Sproul, and though he's not currently better than Pulkkinen he will be a better NHLer.