kipwinger

I'm not afraid to admit it: I'd take Valerie Filppula out for a night of baked oysters and ballroom dancing. Afterward I'd walk her back to her front door, promise to call her again, and part amicably. I'd woo her is what I'm saying.

If we sign Dekeyser I'd trade my first round pick if I were Holland. I know it's not a good long term strategy, BUT it can work out once in a while. Last year we didn't have a first but signed Brunner, and he's clearly better than anyone we would have taken in the first round. This year, if we sign Dekeyser, he'll clearly be better than anyone we would take in the first round. So essentially we got two high first rounders, and didn't need a pick for either of them. Use that pick for a trade Kenny! It's a wash any way you look at it.

I agree, I don't like Bouwmeester. However, if you were suggesting that we couldn't use the two I mentioned I have to disagree. Gaborik would finally give Dats a consistent scoring threat to play with, and Yandle would greatly help on the PP and in the transition game. Both areas where we need work. In theory I agree with you, I'd like a power forward. The problem is, there really aren't any for trade. If there were, then I'd prefer a power winger over Gaborik, but in the absence of one, we need a winger who can give us everyday production...and Justin Abdelkader that ain't.

I'd give up quality picks and prospects for Gaborik or Yandle, but definitely not for Bouwmeester and Iginla. There's no way Holland is dumb enough to pay for these two...right?

This is a real bummer. I don't care what anybody around here says, his size, strength and hands, make him valuable to this team. I'm still holding out hope that Bert makes is back this season.

Every quality prospect is not "the future". Very few are as a matter of fact. Trading one good prospect, even their best prospect, does not hurt the long term viability of the Pens as an organization.

That's exactly the point I'm making, if you've got a deep talent pool of defensive prospects you can move your top rated one without causing any long term harm to your team as a whole. Clearly Shero believed that they could move Morrow and still be fine in the long run. Just because a prospect is really good doesn't mean he has more value playing for your team than he does as trade bait. Holland always views our prospects as future Red Wings, which isn't necessarily bad, but I'm arguing that a guy like Nyquist or Smith (given our prospect depth) has more value as trade bait than as a future player. Just like Morrow clearly had more value as trade bait in Shero's eyes.

You're aware that he's a defensive defenseman who plays a shutdown role right? And that the Pens already score a s*** ton of goals without needing them from Doug Murray? And that they were bounced from the playoffs last year because their defense didn't actually play defense? Who gives a damn if he ever scores a single point? Surely not the Pens.

If he thinks that, then he clearly hasn't been paying attention to how the Edmonton Oilers have run their hockey club since around 1990.

I'm getting a little irritated by this whole "giving up the future" argument. They are absolutely loaded with defensive prospects. Moving one out of the bunch isn't going to "mortgage the future". They have defensive prospects like we have forward prospects, we're lousy with them. God forbid we move one and rely on the rest for the "future".

I agree, but I don't just mean this season. I mean in general. If you look at the Pens team, who did they develop on their own? Crosby, Fleury, Malkin, Letang, Kennedy. Those guys are all good, but they are only marginally better than Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Howard, Filppula, and Kronwall...if they're better at all. However, they've gone out and acquired Neal, Kunitz, Sutter, Martin, Dupuis...and now Murray and Morrow. I'm not saying Shero is a better GM than Holland, he doesn't draft or develop players any better than Holland does, and Holland didn't have the option of picking high for guys like Crosby or Malkin. Where Holland really misses the boat is in the trade/FA markets, where he usually misses out on higher end talent because he likes to play it safe. You don't get quality players (that you didn't develop yourself) by refusing to move good young prospects, and by refusing to pay market value. Which is why they got Neal, Sutter, Kunitz, Martin, etc. and we got Sammy, Bert, White, and Quincey.

I don't mind that they're setting the price high. It's actually kind of refreshing to see a GM who recognizes holes in his lineup and goes out and acquires the pieces he needs to win. Shero could have paid third rate prices, and he would have got third rate players. As it is he got two guys that could really help his team and he didn't make excuses or ***** foot around about it. Good for him.

Haha. Cute. Who does he think Jarome Iginla is...Jarome Iginla 6 years ago?

Again, I'd do it for M. Subban because he's highly overrated. I certainly wouldn't for Mrazek. As I stated in the Iginla thread, I'd rather pursue just about any other winger than him.

If I could get Iginla for Malcolm Subban I'd do it in a second. Subban is garbage. But I agree with the sentiment, Iginla's asking price is sky high by all accounts.

Not true, Brian Burke has called out the league on this type of stuff for a long time. Going so far as to compare it to European soccer. Of course, it's Brian Burke, so he's obviously wrong. Speaking of, the Maple Leafs team that Burke put together in spite of a zillion jeers is playing pretty decent hockey eh?

He's in the same situation that we have with Nyquist right now. An obviously talented player who just isn't putting it all together yet. What he needs is more development and to be eased into their system. I doubt they trade him, as they're on record as wanting more offense. Just like here in Detroit, you've got the fans screaming for him to play because they like their shiny new toy, and an organization who realizes that all the skill in the world doesn't guarantee success in the NHL if you don't play the right style of game.

I can't find the presser anywhere online, should be happening now though. Edit: Boooooooring. Just a bunch of silly platitudes about "finding their game" and "playing angry" and blah blah blah.

I wouldn't agree to that because I have never seen him play, and the odds are against him ever being as good as either of those two. We'll see what he turns in to, but in general I'm against comparing the development of a 21 year old prospect with no North American hockey experience to vaunted NHL superstars. Then again, I would have said the same thing about Dats and Z at that age. And I would have been wrong.

Right, I completely agree. As I said, he's got a couple more years before he'll play in the NHL effectively.

This kid only weighs 175 lbs. He's got a while before he's ready to play in the NHL effectively. I am happy to see what he can do in the AHL though.

I don't want an expensive rental. I'll take a cheaper rental, but not one that's likely not going to say with your team and who will cost a boat load. If we're in the market for an expensive star winger I'd chase Gaborik before Iginla. At least he's under contract for another year. Also, Iginla seriously loves Calgary, as does his family by all accounts. Wouldn't surprise me a bit if he was traded, Calgary got a king's ransom for him, and he returned there in the off season. No thanks.

Thank you, finally someone else who's not mesmerized by the legacy of Stevie Y. So far he's done nothing to show he's a good GM. People tend to forget that long before Holland was a GM he was the head of scouting for Detroit and that has no doubt shaped how he's built his teams. Stevie doesn't have that background, nor does he have first hand experience at any other level of management.

Well if he doesn't trade Tatar we're not doing anything because god knows Nyquist isn't going anywhere. I mean, look at how he stickhandles. Kid's gonna be a star I tell ya.

No, but I do think that that's a part of it. Ericsson has played outstanding this season, but he's not a top pairing defenseman. We need a legit top six and top four, and if we don't have those and keep relying on guys to "take the next step" or "dust the cobwebs off" or whatever then we're going to stay exactly as we are, a good team that's missing the right pieces. Abby's game last night is a prime example. Good for him for playing that well, and it sure worked out last night. But he's not a top six winger, and I don't think there's anybody (aside from the reactionary dips***s at the Free Press) who feels comfortable relying on him to play that way. Does anybody think he could be a difference maker like that in a seven game series? Does anybody think that Ericsson could shut down top lines on top teams consistently in a series? The fact that they've done as well as they have is a god send, but without actual high end pieces our luck will run cold eventually. Your rhetorical b.s. aside, nobody thinks that an acquisition guarantees us anything. But not making moves and playing .500 hockey all but guarantees we won't even get close. Also, it's not like the only guys available are rentals. You could get guys that have a shelf life, you'd just have to pay for them.