kipwinger

I'm starting this thread with the purpose of having someplace to discuss the team's season in overview. I want to leave the GDT (if we're still doing that) for game by game commentary. But this, I hope, will allow us to contextualize our season. We can compare what we are saying at game 45 to what we were saying at game 15 and see what's changing as the season plays out. And the main thing I want to start with is the play of the kids. Much has been made of Lalonde's coaching, and a lot of the criticism is deserved, but since early in the season he's been giving a lot of big, important, minutes to Edvinsson, Kasper, and Berggren. Less so for Johansson, but the Maatta trade should change that a bit. And from a fan standpoint it's hard to be mad at the results. These guys aren't playing like superstars (although I'd argue Edvinsson is close already), but they've been really really good. Kasper is still a long way off from turning 21 and he's out there taking faceoffs (and winning them) against Syndey Crosby. Berggren has been making things happen all over the ice, but particularly in the offensive zone where his stats don't really tell the story of how good he's been at creating scoring opportunities for the Wings. And then there's Edvinsson. This guy is unreal. Watch how many plays he kills in the defensive zone with a simple poke check (his reach is insane) or by simply pinning his weight into a forward along the boards. He's got two fewer points than Seider (without powerplay time) and he's shouldering the same defensive matchups at even strength. He's still got things to learn (like not taking late penalties) but it's beginning to look like we've got another of the top young defenders in the league. And importantly, he's a defender that should be able to hang with bigger, tougher, playoff-type teams. If Lalonde really is coaching for the future, then by mid-season I'd like to see: 1. Marco's line seeing their ice time start creeping up at even strength (they're currently our 2nd best forward line) 2. Berggren getting top powerplay looks when guys like Kane, Raymond, Dcat, deal with injuries. 3. Edvinsson taking over the 2nd powerplay unit (Seider to the 1st) 4. Johansson as an everyday 3rd pair defender.

I stopped drinking a number of years ago. I have pretty strong feelings on how stupid and mean alcohol makes people. That said, it also often leads to hilarious moments of instant karma that are almost impossible to replicate without booze. For instance, in college a buddy of mine was "riding" a skateboard with a bottle of beer in his hand despite knowing nothing about how to ride a skateboard. Another friend yelled "do a trick" to which he responded (in a very cocky way), "I don't DO tricks". Almost instantly he shifted his weight, the board rolled out from underneath him, he fell, and tried to catch himself with the hand holding the bottle. It broke and sliced his palm pretty good. He had to go to the hospital and get stitched up. Pretty awesome trick.

People said the same thing about Kasper. I'm not worried. Kid just played 1C in a top pro league as a rookie. His focus on proper defensive play means his offense doesn't pop yet, but he still outscored Kasper at the same point in their careers and we all just saw Kasper produce just fine in the NHL despite all the negative prognostication. With the exception of Raymond, every SY draft pick has supposedly had "limited offensive upside" and every single one of them scores just fine once they get to the NHL. Prioritizing defensive play is not the same thing as not being able to score. Buium was the best defenseman in GR last year. However I agree that the bar was pretty low but I really liked his game and thought he was the best LHD on the team.

Id go Danielson and Buium but I can see an argument for Kiiskinen and (to a lesser degree) Johansson. I think center is a harder position than winger and the AHL is a better league than Liiga. So I give the nod to Danielson. On defense I really liked Buium’s game last year in GR and I like that he’s played big roles on winning teams. I also think he has more puck skill than Johansson. Im very excited about Kiiskinen tho and see him as a modern day Tuomo Ruutu (Finnish Carter Mazur). I think he’s going to be a good NHL complimentary scorer with a decent amount of pluck. I’m less sure about Johansson. I think he did well on a bad team in the SHL last year and has the size, skating, and mean streak to be a good 3rd pair shutdown guy. But I don’t know enough about his game to say whether he’ll be able to move the puck out of the defensive zone after he makes stops. I just haven’t seen enough of him. In any case, I think Wallinder is trade bate.

I wouldn’t be so sure about Gylander. He had a pretty decent rookie year in Toledo and that league is super hard on goalies. I’d imagine he’ll see plenty of games in GR this year if one of our two top goalies gets injured and Cossa has to move to a backup role in Detroit.

Detroit is absolutely stacked at goalie. Cossa, Augustine, Guimond, Gylander, Postova, and now Pradel. I'd expect one of these guys to be part of a big trade at some point in the near future. All of them are good to great prospects.

Prediction: Yzerman trades for a defenseman before the season starts. The catch? It will be a lefty to play with Seider, forcing Chiarot down the lineup to play with Edvinsson. Because Edvinsson can defend really well, Chiarot will be able to riverboat gamble a bit (as is his inclination) and the pair will be surprisingly effective.

I think our defense is going to absolutely suck again this season barring some kind of trade or huge progression from ASP/Wallinder/Buium/Tuomisto. Long term I think our defense is going to be very good, but this season the defense is basically the same as it was with the caveat that Edvinsson is still not maxed out. I think the Chiarot-Seider pairing is good enough to hold water until we find someone better to take Chiarot's place but we've got no decent option at 2nd pair RHD unless we run it back with Johansson...and that wasn't good enough a year ago. Joking aside I do think JBD at least has a shot at being a Walman-type guy who has talent but wasn't really ever in a position to succeed. It's a long shot but it's a shot.

Totally agree. Same for Seider. There were players ahead of both Ed and Seider that I wouldn't say were "better". They just play for better teams and/or score more points. Fans don't know diddly squat.

Stylistically, Seider reminds me of prime Doughty and Edvinsson reminds me of prime Hedman. Hedman is physical without fighting, Doughty is at his best when he's being a surly SOB. Two totally different ways of being physical and being elite. I think Edvinsson will always be the better defender because of his size and insane wingspan. You basically can't score on the guy when he's in position. Seider's two-way game is better because he's better in transition and I think he sees plays in the offensive zone better than Ed does. That's why Seider is, and should remain, the better powerplay option of the two.

I don't think enough is being said about just how ungodly good Edvinsson was last year. He started in the defensive zone 54% of the time, was in the 90th percentile in terms of quality of competition, and yet 52% of the goals scored while he was on the ice were scored by Detroit. In other words, he started shifts pinned in his own zone against guys like Kucherov, Barkov, Crosby, Matthews etc. more than half the time and Detroit scored more often than their opponents did when he as on the ice. Good god. On top of that, 30 of his 31 points were scored at even strength. Almost no powerplay time. That's insane production given who he was playing against and where he was logging all his minutes. I'm calling it now, when he's 25 he'll be the best defenseman in the NHL.

Let's talk about your 2nd defensive pair. First, you said "as it stands now" which means there isn't an RHD coming in from outside the organization. Meaning you've only got ASP and Tuomisto to choose from. 2nd, Johansson (god love him) was only tolerable on the 2nd pair because he was playing with Edvinsson...who is a one man shutdown pair. Move him away from Edvinsson (or Seider) and he's going to get absolutely smoked for 18 minutes a night.

I agree about the NHL readiness of those players. But given our need for a RHD and given that our top prospect is a RHD I'd give him every opportunity to take that job.

I'm bored so I'm doing line combinations. This is with no additional players coming in from outside the organization. Here we go. Ras-Larkin-Raymond: Ras fills the "Kasper" role on this line. I still believe in his offense if he's not asked to be a shutdown guy (29 pts in 56 games in 22-23). Dcat-Copp-Kane: We saw this line working well last season before Copp's injury Berggren-Kasper-Mazur: Two years ago this was the best line in the AHL and would murder depth defenders in the NHL JVR-Compher-Sodorblom: Quality depth scoring, "hard offense", and some defensive responsibility. Appleton Chiarot-Seider: What else are we gonna do? Edvinsson-ASP: What else are we gonna do? Johansson-JBD: What else are we gonna do, but also might defend pretty well. Gustafsson/Holl: Can't we just fire them into the sun already? Gibson Talbot Analysis: Forwards: I actually really like the forward group. You have an all purpose top line that can play at both ends of the ice. The second line would need to be sheltered and play primarily in the offensive zone, but that's the case with any line Kane is on. The third line has the makings of one of the best 3rd lines in the NHL and they already have instant chemistry. The fourth line provides size and depth scoring of the "hard offense" variety. The only downside I see is that there's not really a true "shutdown line". Defense: I don't love the top pair and I'm not going to love it until Chiarot is replaced, but you know what you're getting and you know they can play solid minutes against the league's best. If you put Edvinsson up there (and he and Seider play 25 mins a night) then you spend 35 minutes a game with no competent defenders on the ice. The second pair is a crap shoot but at least it's got talent. You're gambling a lot on ASP being ready to handle the minutes, which is a big ask, but we've seen other SY draft picks do so at an early age (Seider, Raymond, Edvinsson, Kasper) and ASP clearly has the pedigree to make it work. The third pair would actually be pretty hard to deal with (I think) and could tilt the ice in our favor against the opposition's depth forward lines. I actually really like it. Goalie: This is the best goalie tandem we've had in ages and I have zero complaints right now.

I kinda think JBD is our Nick Perbix. Physical, bottom pair, defender with offensive potential at 5on5. We didn’t get THE Nick Perbix, but we got A Nick Perbix.

Not "leaves", get's traded to San Jose along with a 2nd round pick for future considerations.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed for a Will Cuylle trade but I know I'm just setting myself up for failure.

I love having a genius GM. He zigs when everyone else zags. Like, the whole world seems to think we need to improve our defense and get tougher up front in the top six. Hell, Yzerman said so himself in his end-of-year presser. But wait...SIKE!!!...we don't need no stinking defensemen or power forwards. We need John Gibson and Berggren. #Legend

I'm so ready for SY to sign some 4th line turd like Tyler Motte and then be done for the day. The press conference will be amazing.

I’ll admit I don’t know much about him, so I have been deep diving since the pick. But I like it. Seems like a Sam Reinhart-lite sorta winger. His size and skating are good and will get better as he gets more muscle. His skill looks good, tho I’d caution that his junior team was a wagon the last couple years so his stats may be inflated a bit. All in all a great pick at that position. I feel really good about it.

I've seen some media reports that NYI are looking for multiple 1st round picks coming back in a trade for Dobson. I can't really recall the last time any player got that kind of package coming back...maybe Hertl? So I think it's probably overblown. But if that's truly the price then I'd walk away. He's a really good player, but he's a RHD and we've got Seider and ASP long term. Use those same assets to pin down a heavier power forward type and address the LHD holes in the lineup in free agency.

Another year another Wheeler mock draft with the wings taking a 5’11, 160 lb. winger. Wash, rinse, repeat. I don’t really like our options with this pick and I think we should trade it for Dobson. He’s a stud and if we trade for him and sign Provorov/Gavrikov we would go from having one of the worst defenses in the league to one of the best.

Also, if “McJesus” wasn’t such a McPussy and scored more than 1 goal in the finals things would likely have looked different as well.

Ekblad worries me because he’s going to get paid a premium but hes constantly injured. I worry about signing too many guys who don’t really have anything left to play for.

Fun thought: After the Panthers win last night much was made about it being a "dynasty" and how were they going to retain their core guys (specifically Bennett). To do so they'd have to shed salary elsewhere, which makes them primed for fleecing. Take a look at their organizational depth and see if there's anything of interest. I like Mackie Samoskevich. He plays really hard and fast, was trained well in Florida, has ties to Michigan (USNTDP and UofM) and is an RFA so he'll need a raise. He seems primed to get traded when you consider every dollar will count down in Florida this summer.