krsmith17

Yeah, I could see Helm being slotted in as our 3C IF Zetterberg isn't able to go, but I wouldn't mind seeing Athanasiou be given an opportunity either. I hope Turgeon makes Glendening expendable over the next season or so. I'm not really sold on either of Holmstrom or Ehn in that role.

Most of the reports I've heard have Rasmussen penciled in on the 3rd line left wing. There's no reason we can't have three decent "scoring" lines.

Well I haven't missed a Red Wings game in about 10 years, so that's a given, but I have a feeling I'll be watching those guys in Grand Rapids for the first month or so. All four should be full time starting next season though, which is pretty exciting. We're going to be a much younger / better team in year or two.

No.

Pretty much how I feel. I selfishly want to see him play one more season (or three), but he's done more than enough for this organization over the past 15 years. He needs to take care of his body and think about his future with his family. I'd love to see him hit the 1000 point plateau though. He'd likely need another 70ish games to do it though, and I'm not sure he has that left in the tank...

Yup, Stone is going to look great in the Winged Wheel next season...

No, you didn't say it directly, but saying he "gets around fine for his size" and "a sniper he's not", kind of makes it seem like you think he's "average" in those areas... I think he has explosive speed, never mind "for a big guy". I also think he has an elite level shot, aka a "sniper". That was his game in Val d'Or. That was his game in Grand Rapids (under Blashill). But that hasn't been his game in Detroit (yet). Not because he's not capable of it (we've seen him do it), but because he's asked to play a different style of game. Just because he's big, he's expected to crash the crease and cause havoc in front of the net. I think he'd be much better suited playing a finesse game, holding onto the puck, making plays and "sniping" goals. He'll still score some of those dirty goals, but I'd much rather see him play on the outside utilizing his shot. "If he were excellent at all of it he'd be Blake Wheeler. He isn't." You really don't think Mantha is comparable to Wheeler? Stylistically they're very similar and even stats early in their careers, they were very similar. Mantha was even slightly better early on. Mantha's first full season (age 22) - 60-17-19-36 (0.28 goals per game / 0.6 points per game). Wheeler's first season (age 22) - 81-21-24-45 (0.26 goals per game / 0.56 points per game). Mantha's second season (age 23) - 80-24-24-48 (0.3 goals per game / 0.6 points per game). Wheeler's second season (age 23) - 82-18-20-38 (0.22 goals per game / 0.46 points per game). Again, I'm not sure if Mantha will ever hit that point per game ceiling that Wheeler has, but the potential is definitely there. I agree that Mantha is a very underrated passer, but that doesn't in any way negate my "Mantha is a shooter narrative"... If anything that supports my Mantha should be used on the left faceoff dot narrative. How much passing / playmaking is he able to do when he's stationed in front of the net? Minimal. He's just there to direct / bang in loose pucks. He's very good at it, but would have more of an impact shooting / making plays in my opinion.

For sure, and if anyone said 15 years ago that Duncan Keith will be over half a point per game, multi Norris trophy winner, elite defenseman, I would have said the same thing... Possible. Doubtful. I hope I'm wrong (if he were drafted by the Wings). Like I said, I definitely see the similarities stylistically, but I'm not confident in saying that Cholowski has that sort of elite potential. I'll definitely be watching a lot of Griffins games this season, and will be keeping a close eye on Cholowski (and maybe Zadina, Svechnikov, Hronek, etc).

Mantha's contract absolutely is "team friendly". You might have a case for Athanasiou's contract, but I'd say he will outproduce his over the next two seasons as well. Once again Holland does a fantastic job on all three of his big RFA's. Would have preferred Larkin and Mantha with a few extra years each, but oh well. Not much you can do when the player wants short term to prove their worth, which is never a bad thing either. This. You can't go by anything else but "market value" when evaluating a player's contract though. I agree 100% that all athletes are overpaid, but Larkin got what is the going rate in today's NHL. If anything, he's signed to a bit of a "hometown discount". You can be guaranteed that Larkin could have gotten beyond $6.5M on the open market. I'm sure there are several teams out there that's would have been more than happy to give him upwards of $7.5M. $6.1M for the next five years will prove to be an absolute steal. He will become the next Red Wings captain during that span, and will likely re-up at another "hometown discount" (although higher AAV, due to him being a UFA and cap inflation) after this contract is up. Yes, "Welcome back Captain D-Boss"!!!

I'm not sure if you're serious, but if Cholowski becomes half of what Keith was in his prime, I'd be ecstatic. They do play a similar style game, but I don't see that sort of upside from Cholowski. Maybe he becomes a solid number two defenseman, but I don't see him reaching number one status. I sure as hell hope I'm wrong though. Cholowski is definitely our best bet as a solid all around defenseman, which is what you want in a number one, but the question is, will he be very good at everything (no glaring weaknesses) or just okay at everything (no major strengths)...

So I guess I'll say it again... If you think Mantha is a little "slow-footed", you probably haven't been watching the games. I didn't say Mantha's skating is an "asset", but it definitely isn't a weakness. He's not as fast as Larkin or Athanasiou, but I'd bet on him in a head-to-head against any other player on the team. He's a very good skater for a big man. It's funny because if you had asked me to name one player I'd compare Mantha to, it would have probably been Blake Wheeler. I'm not sure if he'll ever reach Wheeler's ceiling, but stylistically, they're very similar. A young Todd Bertuzzi may be somewhat accurate as well though (minus the mean streak). Check out these two scouting reports from the Hockey News... Mantha Assets - "Is a natural goal-scoring talent with great size and instincts for putting the biscuit in the basket. For a big winger, he skates very well, too. Displays great hand/eye coordination. Can play either wing position." Flaws - "Needs to work on his play at the defensive end of the rink, as well as his game-to-game consistency, in order to maximize production at the National Hockey League level. Takes a few too many shifts off." Wheeler Assets - "Has tremendous size and reach for the wing position, as well as good wheels for a big guy. Controls the puck effectively in the corners and possesses a good scoring touch. Is at his best when driving through traffic areas." Flaws - "At times, he stops moving his feet and becomes a little lazy on the ice. Should also use his massive size more frequently so as to become more intimidating to play against. Can go through important scoring slumps." He already does score a bunch of different ways, it's just that most of his goals are deflections and rebounds in front of the net, because that's the game he's told to play. He has no choice but to "take Blashill's advice", but Blashill should not be trying to turn Mantha into a net front guy. He has too much skill to be limited strictly to the front of the net every time they gain any offensive zone time. Mantha is more than capable of scoring off the rush, skating down the wing and sniping top corner. He's done it several times. "A sniper he ain't"? I don't get this comment. Have you seen the guy's shot? You think he has average skating and an average shot. I think the comment I made originally about not watching the games may apply to you. Have you been watching? He's a very good skater and has a very heavy, accurate shot. Ideally, with the addition of Rasmussen, Blashill will smarten up and start using Mantha where he should be, in the slot or around the right faceoff dot, so he can use his best asset, his shot.

I'm not sure how you want me to answer that without any projections... I think he's currently our best winger and one of our best forwards. I'm curious, do you think Mantha's skating is an issue?

Mantha is 6'5", 225lbs, Rasmussen is 6'6", 220lbs. Mantha is also over 4 years older. Rasmussen is still a teenager. I think he'll be fine. He'll likely add a little more mass to that frame (hopefully not too much)...

Cap hit is great. I would have liked longer term, but we knew he was going to get in the 5-6 year range. Great deal.

... if you think Mantha is a little slow-footed, you probably haven't been watching the games...

I wouldn't go that far. I think he'll be a solid top six winger. He's also a pretty good skater for such a big player. I don't see that being an issue.

I know it wasn't a huge reach to take Rasmussen at 9, because he was projected to go around that range by some draft analysts. However, he was projected to go a lot later by others (some more notable than others). Bob McKenzie (TSN) had him ranked 9th Craig Button (TSN) had him ranked 21st Corey Pronman (ESPN) had him ranked 19th Jeff Marek (Sportsnet) had him ranked 22nd Ryan Kennedy (THN) had him ranked 10th "International Scouting Services" had him ranked 10th "McKeen's Hockey" had him ranked 10th "The Draft Analyst" had him ranked 23rd "Hockey Prospects" had him ranked 15th "Future Considerations" had him ranked 16th "Dobber Prospects" had him ranked 20th. In the end though, none of this matters. It only matters where the Wings had them on their list, and he was obviously very high. My biggest issue *at the time* was that a player that was considered a top 3-6 pick by most (a player I really wanted pre-draft), dropped to the Wings and they passed on him. I know several others passed on him as well, but I just think Vilardi would have been the better pick there. We took advantage of two players (Zadina and Veleno) dropping to us this year, it would have been nice if we took advantage of the same situation last year. Oh well, I'm over it. I don't care how Vilardi does at this point, I just hope Rasmussen exceed expectations. So far, so good.

You actually think there's a huge distinction between 25/50 and 30/60? Players fluctuate that much every single season. I think Larkin will score 20 goals, 50 assists this season. Would you call me out if next week I say I think Larkin will score 25 goals, 55 assists? Probably. You nit-pick everything. You're right. Saying "not even close" was a complete exaggeration... I have no idea what I was thinking... Yes, some players play "better", or have "more productive" seasons, but don't necessarily project to be "better" players long term. I know, crazy isn't it... Tyler Wright has said himself that they wanted to get bigger in last year's draft, and said that they wanted more skill in this year's draft. So yes, for whatever reason, they wanted to get bigger last year, even if it was at the expense of skill. That was more of a shot at the Director of Amateur Scouting, not Rasmussen. Everyone knows I, along with countless other Wings fans, were not thrilled with the Rasmussen pick. However, I said back on the day he was drafted that he was now my favorite prospect, and hope nothing but the best for him. I'm not one of those people that want to see him fail just so I can say "I was right". I'd much rather see him exceed expectations and say "I was wrong". I don't think he will be as good as Mantha. If he is, fantastic. We have two very good, top six power forwards.

I don't "have to put him below Mantha", that's just where I project him. What's fascinating is how much it bothers you that I think Mantha was a better player than Rasmussen at the same age, and think he will be a better player in the future. It really, really bothers you... Mantha was 19 years, 1 month at the beginning of his draft+1 season. Rasmussen was 18 years 7 months at the beginning of his draft+1 season. So yeah, Mantha had 6 months on him. Rasmussen is 9 months older than Veleno. Sorry for not doing the calculations earlier... I really didn't think it was that big a deal. But then again, I don't think any of this is that big a deal... You're right about Rasmussen having the highest points per game, and I know you won't believe me, because you're you... but that was totally unintentional, honest mistake on my part. I was looking at the wrong numbers. I take back what I said about him being the 3rd or 4th best player on that team. He was likely number one right there with Geekie. Where the hell is this best not meaning better coming from? Where did I say anything close to that? I don't bring Vilardi up every time. In fact you're the one that originally brought him up and the reason we're talking about him now. Someone else also brought him up in another thread and my response was "f*** Vilardi, he's an LA King". As for Rasmussen not driving offense... That's one of the flaws that has been attached to him since we drafted him, and the reason I wasn't thrilled with the pick originally. His 5-on-5 point totals and primary point totals are extremely low. He produces most of his points on the power-play, which is great, but a sign that he doesn't drive offense.

I'm not really surprised Svechnikov, Turgeon, Hicketts, Hronek or Sulak won't be there. They're all established pros at this point. Kind of surprised Berggren, Lindstrom (as well as Kivenmaki and Setkov) won't be there though. I assume they're all training in Sweden / Finland. Kotkansalo, Larsson, Petruzzelli (as well as Pearson, O'Reilly, Adams and Holway) aren't eligible because they went the college route and aren't under contract with the Wings yet. The same reason this will be Pope's first prospect camp. He played his final season of college this past season and signed a contract with the Wings this summer.

Red Wings just released the Prospect Tournament Roster... 11 Filip Zadina RW Halifax (QMJHL) 2018 1st round (6th overall) 21 Dennis Cholowski D Portland (WHL) 2016 1st round (20th overall) 27 Michael Rasmussen C Tri-City (WHL) 2017 1st round (9th overall) 29 Vili Saarijarvi D Grand Rapids (AHL) 2015 3rd round (73rd overall) 34 Patrik Rybar G Hradec Kralove (Czech) Signed by Red Wings, 5/21/18 36 Kaden Fulcher G Hamilton (OHL) Signed by Red Wings, 10/3/17 46 Lane Zablocki RW Victoria (WHL) 2017 3rd round (79th overall) 48 Givani Smith RW Kitchener (OHL) 2016 2nd round (46th overall) 49 Axel Holmstrom C Grand Rapids (AHL) 2014 7th round (196th overall) 50 Reilly Webb D Saginaw (OHL) 2017 6th round (164th overall) 53 Jordan Topping LW Tri-City (WHL) Signed by Griffins, 7/20/18 58 David Pope LW Omaha (NCHC) 2013 4th round (109th overall) 62 Trevor Hamilton D Penn State (B10) Signed by Griffins, 3/28/18 63 Jared McIsaac D Halifax (QMJHL) 2018 2nd round (36th overall) 64 Zach Gallant C Peterborough (OHL) 2017 3rd round (83rd overall) 67 Brady Gilmour C Saginaw (OHL) 2017 7th round (193rd overall) 68 Justin Fazio G Sarnia (OHL) Free Agent Invitee 70 Christoffer Ehn C Frolunda (SHL) 2013 4th round (109th overall) 73 Marcus Crawford D Saginaw (OHL) Signed by Griffins, 4/3/18 74 Cole Fraser D Peterborough (OHL) 2017 5th round (131st overall) 76 Nicolas Guay C Drummondville (QMJHL) Free Agent Invitee 81 Trevor Yates C Cornell (ECAC) Signed by Griffins, 3/28/18 89 Pavel Gogolev RW Peterborough (OHL) Free Agent Invitee 90 Joe Veleno C Drummondville (QMJHL) 2018 1st round (30th overall) 92 Maxim Golod LW Erie (OHL) Free Agent Invitee 94 Alec Regula D London (OHL) 2018 3rd round (67th overall)

Dahlin is generational. I get it. Every number one overall pick gets overhyped leading up to the draft these days. Hell, even the top 10 is beginning to be overhyped. But none of these players are being talked about as "generational", the same way McDavid was and Dahlin is now. Just because these players are being hyped, doesn't mean that none will live up to said hype. I think Dahlin will for sure. How often have you seen any of these players play? I'll admit that I haven't seen any of them play much, other than World Juniors and extended highlights on each. So I only have that and scouting reports (aka hype) to base an opinion on. Maybe you've seen them all play a lot more, but if you haven't, what makes you think Dahlin is being "overhyped", and Svechnikov and Pettersson are being hyped just the right amount, or maybe even "underhyped"?... You still didn't answer my original question... Dahlin was the undisputed number one leading up to the draft (for over a year). No one else was close, and that includes Svechnikov. So what makes you think that Svechnikov is all of a sudden a better prospect? No hockey has been played by either to increase / decrease their stock. What makes Svechnikov better now? No, Ekblad wasn't as hyped as Dahlin. Not even close. I don't recall a single person ever claiming that Ekblad would be "generational". He wasn't considered to be pre-draft and he's not considered to be now. Still a very good number one defenseman that would still likely go number one overall in a re-draft. You might be able to make a case for Draisaitl. but I'd still give the edge to Ekblad.

I don't think Rasmussen has displayed "close to" the level of play that Mantha did when he was the same age. Remember those stats I brought up from their draft+1 seasons? I also don't think Rasmussen will be "quite as" good as Mantha over the course of their careers. I've already said that I believe Rasmussen will be a top six winger. I just see Mantha as our 1LW (30 goals, 60 points) and Rasmussen as our 2LW (25 goals, 50 points). I'd love to be wrong on this. But if I am, I hope it's because Ras exceeds expectations, not because Mantha falls short. He was the 3rd or 4th best player on his junior team this past season. The stats are there to back this up. I'm not saying that the 2 or 3 players that were better than him, will go on to have more successful careers (I doubt any of them will), but they did have more productive seasons. Plain and simple. What does thinking we could have / should have drafted a different player have to do with where I project Rasmussen? It has nothing to do with anything... I think Rasmussen will be a top six winger that needs to play with players that can drive offense. I think Vilardi will be a top six (maybe top line) winger that drives offense. The fact that we didn't draft Vilardi, doesn't change how I feel about Rasmussen in any way. So no, I don't see how any of this could be taken as me having a "notably negative opinion of Rasmussen". I don't at all. You spend way too much time trying to read between the lines and pick out one thing I say, and disregard everything else I'm saying...

Terrible trade for Bergevin... So maybe it'll happen... If we could get a 1st round pick for Nyquist at the deadline, we'd be able to get a 1st round pick *plus* for Pacioretty, while also dumping Helm's contract. Even if Zetterberg goes on LTIR this season (I still don't think he will), we'd still have Larkin, Nielsen, Athanasiou, Glendening and Turgeon as center options. I do agree though that it would totally depend on what that "pick" was going the other way. 1st? Definitely not. 2nd? Maybe, but probably not. 3rd or later? Absolutely. Either way, this trade would never happen, even with Bergevin on the other end of it...