krsmith17

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I agree. And saying that I wouldn't put any other prospect in the same conversation as Dahlin isn't a knock against Pettersson or Svechnikov or Heiskanen or anybody else.

Fair enough. I'd love to see Mantha play a physical, in-your-face style of game, but I don't think it's essential for him to be successful. Plenty of big players play a finesse style of game and rarely use their size to impose their will on the opposition. As long as Mantha is putting up points on the regular and gains a little more consistency, I'll be happy. And I think he will. The "people think I'm being too hard on him" comment was more so directed at Buppy and his "you've hardly passed up an opportunity to deride the pick" comment... Regarding the bold... yes, I think Rasmussen is a very good player and a great prospect. I'm excited to see what he can do this season in Detroit.

This may or may not be directed at me, but I'm going to respond anyway because a lot of things seem to be being taken out of context... I believe there is a ton to like about Rasmussen. After all, he is one of our top prospects. Some seem to take offense though that others don't see him as our undisputed number one prospect. He wouldn't have been my pick at 9th overall a year ago, but I agree that since then, he has more than proven himself. I agree with the Backes comparison, and I too would be thrilled if Ras developed into a Backes type player. I'm not sure if he'll ever be as "mean" as Backes, but if he goes to the net and scores close to the number of dirty goals that Backes has scored over the course of his career, he'll be a huge contributor on this team. That's because I don't think Rasmussen has displayed close to the level of skill as Mantha thus far in their respective careers. Could he get there? Maybe. But personally, I don't see it. That doesn't in any way indicate that I don't think Rasmussen is skilled. He's obviously very skilled, but not at the level as Mantha in my opinion. And I responded to that... Mantha to Ericsson is the worst comparison I've ever heard. They literally have none of the same qualities, except being big, and even then, Mantha is bigger. Might as well compare Zadina to Hudler... which is actually a much more favorable comparison in my opinion... I agree that Rasmussen has the attitude / work ethic that will likely propel him to exceed expectations. I just don't think he'll be better than Veleno (where this conversation originated from) or Mantha (where this conversation somehow ended up). I've said that I think Rasmussen should make the team out of camp this season. I've said that I expect him to be a top six winger, capable of scoring 30 goals (60 points), and people still think I'm being too hard on him, or "deriding the pick"...

He's literally the most highly regarded defenseman pre-draft ever. A cross between Hedman and Karlsson is what most draft analysts have been saying. He was the undisputed pick ahead of Svechnikov just a month and a half ago. What has changed since then? I just don't see an argument for Svechnikov or Pettersson ahead of Dahlin... I'd take the generational defenseman any day.

I think Trouba is a "top pair" defenseman, but he's not a legit "number one", yet, and probably won't ever be. Cholowski or Hronek could be 35+ point defensemen in this league some day, but as our top two defense prospects, they're going to need some help. Ideally, we'll get that defenseman in the next two drafts...

Mantha is essentially Ericsson except he's a forward, much better skater, better passer, better shooter, better hands, better vision, etc. But hey, they're both big, so I guess they're "essentially" the same... Mantha is plenty aggressive, but decided to take boxing lessons this offseason to become more "aggressive"... He does need to work on his consistency for sure, but that goes for just about every young player in this league. I hope Rasmussen develops into a better player than Mantha. I think Mantha will be a 30 goal, 60+ point producer. If Rasmussen tops that, I think every Wings fan wouldn't be thrilled. I'm rooting for the kid. I'm just not as optimistic as you and a few others... How does saying one player doesn't have the same level of skill as another player mean that player isn't skilled? Mantha doesn't have close to the same level of skill as McDavid. Does that mean that Mantha is not skilled? I'm sure Rasmussen will be a solid top 6 winger, I just think Veleno will be more valuable, and I don't see him surpassing Mantha. We'll have to wait and see, but I'm really looking forward to watch all of these kids develop over the next few seasons.

Who said that Rasmussen isn't skilled? I think he's very skilled, just not quite as skilled as Mantha in my opinion. Rasmussen has great hand-eye coordination and will likely score a lot of his goals in tight. Mantha has a lethal shot and should be scoring his goals off the rush / in the slot. Both are very good skaters, strong on the puck, good hands, decent passers, etc. I think Mantha and Rasmussen will both be top six wingers. I'd prefer them to be on separate lines though, so I see Mantha as our 1W and Rasmussen as our 2W. Both should be on our top power-play unit. Mantha up high as a shooter and Rasmussen down low as a net front. Again, I never said that Rasmussen isn't a good prospect. I am higher on Veleno though, if for no other reason, I see him as a 2C and Ras as a 2W. If we could only have one or the other, I'd take Veleno, but am happy to have both, although would have been happier to have Veleno and Vilardi...

Maybe not, but we'll see. My point though was that where Mantha may lack a little in tenacity or determination (I don't believe this to be an issue), he more than makes up for it with skill. I don't think Rasmussen has close to the level of skill as Mantha, but we'll see.

They're both decent middle six 30-40 point centers. Jarnkrok was traded to Nashville for Legwand... Janmark was traded to Dallas for Cole...

Meh, I still don't like Mantha used as a net front guy on the power-play. He's good at it, but I believe he'd be much better utilized as a shooter. He has an elite shot, but doesn't get to use it nearly enough. If anything, I'm just happy to have Rasmussen so that hopefully that will allow Mantha to go back to where he's had so much success on the power-play (right faceoff circle).

I think Mantha, like most young players, needs to work on being more consistent. I do think he is "consistently engaged" though. It just doesn't always look like he is because of the way he plays the game. Much like Franzen. The Mule wasn't lazy or disengaged. He just wasn't as consistent as some fans would have liked. That goes for almost any goal scorer though, especially big power-forward type goal scorers. I agree with the bold. I'm hoping they can become our two top six power forward left-wingers, capable of scoring 50-60 goals (100+ points).

Rasmussen tips McIsaac shot past Petruzzelli.

We shouldn't put much stock in any of these rankings, but anyone that puts Dahlin #3 behind Pettersson and Svechnikov loses all credibility in my opinion.

The reason is that Rasmussen is a year older / a year ahead in his development, not because he's necessarily a better player / prospect now or in the future. As for Rasmussen being a better player than Mantha, I wouldn't bet on that either. It's possible, sure, but where Ras may have the edge in compete level, Mantha has the edge in overall skill. I also don't really buy into all the Mantha is lazy bulls***. The same fans that say that about Mantha, will say the same about Rasmussen, just because bigger players often get labeled as floaters because they appear to be putting in minimal effort, which simply isn't the case (all the time). In Rasmussen's draft+1 year, he put up 92 points (47 goals, 45 assists) in 61 games (regular season and playoffs). Not bad at all, especially considering the elite performance he had in the playoffs. In Mantha's draft+1 year, he put up 158 points (81 goals, 77 assists) in 81 games (regular season and playoffs). The Q is a higher scoring league than the W, but Rasmussen also had more help in Tri-City than Mantha did in Val d'Or. Mantha was far and away his teams best player, and he carried them all the way to the President's Cup. Rasmussen wasn't even the best player on his team last year, arguably 3rd or 4th best.

I agree with all of this. However, I'd much rather draft that number one defenseman than trade for one, especially an established number one. We should have one more draft (maybe two) where we get a top 10 (maybe even top 3) pick, so there's a real possibility that we could draft a future number one in the next two years. I still really want Dylan Cozens in next year's draft, but maybe Bowen Byram emerges as a future number one D in the next 11 months...

Stevens was a freak of nature as well though. I think he was an exception to an extremely physical player playing well into his late 30's. Maybe Vladdy would have done it as well, but I wouldn't have bet on it, especially considering the rest of the Russian 5 were gone by the time he was 35.

Same. I think I'll watch a lot more Griffins games again this season. I used to watch a lot of games, but just had no interest last season. This season, they could have Zadina, Svechnikov, Turgeon, Smith, Pope, Hronek, Cholowski, all of which I see as future Red Wings, as well as Holmstrom, Sulak and Saarijarvi, who have an outside chance of playing for the Red Wings some day...

If any defensemen in our system have a chance to become a top pair defenseman, I'd say Cholowski and Hronek are the only one's close (at this point). I think Cholowski has a chance to become a solid all around defenseman, that can skate well and move the puck, similar to a Nick Leddy (or what I hoped Brendan Smith would become... ). I think Hronek has a chance to become an offensive defenseman, that can skate well and quarterback a power-play, similar to a Sami Vatanen. I'm not that high on Sulak. I don't think he'll ever become a regular NHLer, and if he does, I think he tops out as a bottom pair defenseman. Same goes for Saarijarvi for me.

I love his optimism on Veleno and Cholowski, but I don't see either playing full time with the Wings this season. Both are likely a year (maybe two) away. Maybe Cholowski gets a look at the end of the season, but I wouldn't count on that until next season, unless there are multiple injuries on the back end. I'd be shocked if Rasmussen doesn't make the team and is sent back to Tri-City, unless he's injured or has an awful camp / preseason. Zadina and Hronek could go either way in my opinion. I think it will take an injury or trade for either to make the team out of camp. My guess is both start in Grand Rapids and are first on the list for injury replacements. I think the team will look something like this... Athanasiou - Larkin - Mantha Rasmussen - Zetterberg - Nyquist Bertuzzi - Nielsen - Vanek Abdelkader - Glendening - Helm Frk / Witkowski Frk is inserted into the lineup for game day / short-term injuries. Zadina is the first call-up for any long-term injuries. Svechnikov should be the second call-up. Hopefully he earns a full-time spot in Detroit by mid-season. Witkowski shouldn't ever play... DeKeyser - Green Ericsson - Daley Kronwall - Jensen Hicketts Hicketts is inserted into the lineup for game day / short-term injuries. Hronek is the first call-up for any long-term injuries. Howard Bernier

More or less valuable than what??? If you're asking if we'd be happy with that sort of production from Athanasiou, I would be, and that's about what I expect / hope he will develop into. If AA can become a 20-25 goal scorer / 35-45 point producer while being one of the more dangerous penalty killers in the league, I'd be thrilled.

But Nyquist isn't a top six forward... and he's "overpaid"... and he sux...

That's a difficult question. One for sure, Zadina. Maybe Veleno. Rasmussen was projected to go around 12 by most "experts" in last year's (weaker) draft, and Veleno was projected to go around 12 by most "experts" in this year's (stronger) draft. I still think the Wings would have taken Rasmussen last year over Veleno because for whatever reason they were determined to get bigger last year, even if it was at the expense of getting higher end skill. As you know, I would have taken Veleno over Ras, but (right or wrong) I'm not so sure the Wings brass would have... Either way, I think they're thrilled to have both players, and hopefully both pan out to be top six centers / wingers. As for the other two, I don't think either Berggren or McIsaac would have gone ahead of any of the other three, but I don't think it's a stretch at all to say that both would have likely been late 1st round picks in last year's draft.

McIsaac scored a goal last night (wrist shot from the point), although it was assisted by Jet Woo, so I'm not sure if they were just in the middle of a line change or the pairs got switched up...

So I guess you don't really believe in "number one" or "top pair" defensemen, and you think teams should be able to play defense by committee, and win with 4-5 very good defensemen? I'd agree with that, but the question then is, do we have enough high end defense prospects to make that happen? I'm not so sure... If two defensemen in our system (Hronek, Saarijarvi, Lindstrom, Cholowski, McIsaac, other) can hit 35-50 points consistently I'd be thrilled. To say that all five will is a bit of a stretch though in my opinion. That would make them all "top pair" defensemen in today's NHL, based just on the raw numbers. We've only had two defensemen (Kronwall and Green) put up those point totals since Lidstrom retired (6 years ago)? Each did it twice. Kronwall had 49 points in 2013-14 and 44 points in 2014-15, and Green had 35 points in 2015-16 and 36 points in 2016-17. That means, not a single Red Wings defenseman hit 35 points this past season. Green was the closest with 33. I don't think we need one 60+ point defenseman if we can have four 30-40 point defensemen or even two 40-50 point / two 10-20 point defensemen. However, I don't see any of that in our system right now... I certainly hope I'm wrong and we have a few guys that can exceed my expectations.