kliq

I can remember that like it was yesterday. I was 12 at the time and I can remember just sitting on my couch so angry afterwards as I didnt understand how we could lose to a #8 seed. Coming off the Nikolai Borchevsky goal the year before, that was a tough one.

I don't question your fandom Dickie, I think you are very cynical regarding the Wings and I have said that many times, but I can tell you're a fan. I hate the term "haters" to begin with, but when I think of someone who fits that description its someone who hates a player regardless of what they do or accomplish, search Franzen on here to see what I mean. The people who I also question are those who when the Wings are losing love to spout off thread after thread after thread, but when the Wings are winning completely disappear. There are those who I believe if asked in private if they wanted the Wings to win the cup this year, would say no as they would rather be "right" about their opinions then see the team win. Their main concern is pushing the narrative they have created. Those that post here day after day, actually watch the games, go to games etc. Those are the real fans. Those who only give a s*** if we are elite, are bandwagon jumpers.

You're right.....last season it was 4.

Agreed. I dont think anyone has every said anything about Mrazek being at Price's level. When the best of the best struggle in their first few years, I dont understand how some dont get that its normal.

That really means nothing. Its more important to have a team of guys that can score then having one 40 goal scorer. Look at our Hall of Fame Team in 2002, nobody hit 40 goals, but I dont think we had any issues scoring as we ranked 2nd in goals per game. I realize goal scoring is an issue right now, but even when you have elite guys, they dont necessarily hit 40 goals. In the entire NHL last year, only 4 guys hit 40, and only 24 others got 30.

The original poster to your comment was clearly over the top so I'm not defending his take. But lots of great hockey minds dont value the enforcer. Even Babs a guy I know you think is the greatest coach in the NHL doesn't seem to value that role. I dont think its a matter of "not understanding" I think its more of different philosophy. Personally, if the game is the way it is, I think having a guy on your team that can drop the gloves is a good thing, but I dont want a guy who can only do that. I prefer a guy who fight, but can also contribute a bit. The best example I can give is Georges Laraque. The guy was a tank but also could get you close to 10 goals and 20 points a year. I remember he scored some big goals in the classic Edmonton/dallas games of the late 90's/early 2000's. That's just my take.

Not going to argue E, Abby (since his ext kicked in), or Howard. Kronwall I think you are wrong, he signed a long term deal with a low cap hit and at the beginning he was a steal, near the end it hurts us. Overall it balances out. As for Nyquist, he's on pace to get like 50-60 points and he's paid just over 4mil....what are your expectations for him?

Ya this is horrible. My thoughts are with the family, just sucks.

I completely agree with you, but you are never going to silence the Helm haters. Doesn't matter how much logic or comparables you bring to the table, when someone has an emotional response and are being stubborn with their opinions, nothing will change.

What I dont understand is clearly the Wings dont see much of a future with Lashoff given that he didnt play a single game last year, was put through waivers this year, and was only called up because of multiple injuries. With that being said, now that he is up how can they all of a sudden want to play him over Sproul a guy with top 4 upside? Unless Sproul did something stupid we dont know about, or is hurt, I dont get it.

Do you like Ott better then some of the players mentioned, or is this based on salary? I have a hard time believing that if Nyquist made 800,000 and Ott made 4mil, you would say you liked Ott better.

What's funny is Babs is doing the exact same thing right now in TO with Nylander. Doesn't help with the Blashcock stereotype.

With Mantha playing the way he is, I would have to think that Bertuzzi or Miller would be sent down first. Mantha needs to be on the big club, he's a benefit to the team in the short term, and the long term.

Agreed....he is definitely not worth his contract, but some make him out to be an anchor on this team. E getting paid 1.5 per year on the 3rd pairing would be an excellent contract.

Probably Nosek and/or Lashoff. I cant see Holland sending down Mantha to keep Nosek.

How would you suggest he do that? Do you think there are teams lining up to take those contracts?

I tend to agree, but statistically I cant back that.

Yep lol, that would be Richdg. I asked for clarification, but he didn't respond

All I can say is this, Franzen suffered his first diagnosed concussion at the NHL level (who knows how many prior) on December 14th 2006. The NHL was different with its treatment of concussions back then, guys returned to early, and often missed zero time unless it was a major concussion. (anyone remember when Havlat returned for the Hawks against us in the playoffs a game after Kronwall rocked him and he couldn't walk) Given how bad Franzen is now, I think its safe to say he suffered a lot of concussions in the span of 2006-2015, and likely a lot of undiagnosed concussions. To say that his spells of completely disappearing were simply "Long Term Contract Syndrome" is 100% speculation on your part and IMO very dismissive of the seriousness of concussions. With that being said, I cant prove you wrong, the only person who could is Franzen himself, but even then you could just not believe him. So long story short, there is now way to prove this one way or another. I am basing my opinion on probability. Given how many concussion Franzen has had, and given the symptoms of Post Concussion Syndrome, I don't believe it is far fetched to come to my conclusion that his change in play was a result of repetitive brain injury. You bring up lack of motivation, you know that is symptom right? This stuff really messes with your head. Lack of motivation, depression, lethargy etc. are all things that result from concussions. I will stick to my guns when I say that if Franzen never suffered a concussion in the NHL, he would have likely produced at a high level for a long time. For the record though, when I say high level, I don't mean the level of a Crosby, Kane, Ovie etc. I mean at a high level for an excellent top 6 forward.

I think a lot of people put down our players when the context is "Has Holland done a good job of acquiring young talent". But when the context is purely about the skill our our players and has nothing to do with Holland, the narrative changes and becomes much more positive.

You make it sound like Zetterberg has never had chemistry with anyone before. This isnt worth debating.

It is, but you put Nyquist or Tatar back in the AHL and they would be leading the league in goals. My point is, scoring in the AHL doesn't mean scoring in the NHL. I dont think Frk would be a goal scorer at the NHL level. I'm not against giving him a shot, but I dont see him surprising anyone. I hope he proves me wrong.

There is one player on the Wings with a no movement clause and that is Nielsen. The others have no trade clauses.

In regards to Mantha, to me its pretty clear that management are very high on him but didnt feel that they were getting as much out of him as they could. There is stuff that happens that we dont see. Jim Devellano's comments about him last year were pretty telling to me, they were trying to send a message. Now that Mantha is up and playing at the level that they want him playing at, I just can't see them sending him back down. I realize that sometimes the Wings take things to the extreme, but you cant just hand these kids spots if they are not earning it. You've always been high on Frk huh.

You do know that Scotty Bowman is 83 years old.